Ministers finally agree guidance on trans pupils

Unfortunately, the Australian government (especially the state governments) are people who not only think it is ok to do this to children, but have LEGISLATED so. It is horrifying and so desperately sad for the children whose lives have been caught up in their delusions, as there is no one to safeguard them at all.

Thank you Kemi , I bet it was a mission to get the wording correct

Not by teachers no, they're not trained or qualified to make those calls. Teachers have approves safeguarding procedures to follow if they feel a student is at risk so they should follow them.

I completely agree. I wasn't making a comparison between being trans and a lesbian. I was illustrating that not all parents have their children's best interests at heart.

I recall waiting on updated technical guidance from the EHRC

Not sure if it’s relevant but they updated in September

Having skimmed it I feel too annoyed to comment and it’s late, maybe others can get something useful from it

https://www.hcrlaw.com/blog/ehrc-technical-guidance-for-schools-september-2023-update/amp/

Being a lesbian is not comparable to identifying as trans.

Identifying as trans implies a medical pathway which parents need to be informed about.

The implication seems to be that it is discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment if a boy who self-identifies as trans can't wear the girls' uniform, but it's not sex discrimination to stop a boy who doesn't identify as trans from wearing the girls' uniform.

Can someone with legal expertise explain that please? Because it seems that having the PC of gender reassignment (which people can self identify into, with no gatekeeping) gives you more protection from the EA than people get because of their sex.

While children cannot have a GRC, it's clear (and was reinforced by the updated EHRC technical guidance to schools Sept 2023) children can have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

But it's not at all clear what discrimination with respect to that PC would amount to in practice.

There's a really clear exploration of this here, particularly the bit under the heading "Misgendering":

www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2023/09/

A school friend of mine of mine was beaten almost to death when her very religious parents found out she was a lesbian. You might think it's "silly" but these things do happen. Existing safeguarding protocols did not protect her.

As I've said I'm broadly supportive of this but that doesn't mean that I can't see potential pitfalls for some individuals.

Kemi Badenoch wanted the guidance to ban social transitioning in schools in all circumstances - that might be what is being referred to (see Telegraph excerpt below).

While children cannot have a GRC, it's clear (and was reinforced by the updated EHRC technical guidance to schools Sept 2023) children can have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Trouble is that this hasn't been tested in the courts and we know that the fake Stonewall law has wreaked havoc in schools, sport and with women's rights.
So nobody's really certain of how this will play out in practice.
The vast number of adults who've been allowed to use schools to socially groom children into believing they've been born in the wrong body are not going to give up that power without a fight.
I'm hoping that this will be seen as a return to prioritising safeguarding in schools - and just as Cass recommends - a return to professional therapeutic support for mentally vulnerable children, schools obeying the law about political impartiality with no place for political transactivism.

Oh, please God... Bring it on.

Totally agree @JanesLittleGirl My son is 9 and has demanded so many times that we change his name. For a while he tried to insist that we address him as something like ‘The Zarlu’. Then it was ZeeZee then it was Ezakariah.

Sometimes it is in the children’s best interests to hear ‘Your name is Zack, you can change it when you’re 18 if you want to, until then stop whinging, no-one wants to say 4 syllables everytime they address you and by the way ‘The Zarlu’ is not a name and sounds ridiculous.

Allies of the Attorney General, Victoria Prentis KC, said the government's three law officers had advised that because some of the suggested guidance came up against the Equality Act, the government would only be able to go further on this issue if they introduced new legislation.

Is there any explanation anywhere of what they mean by this?

Is it? But, who is a boy and who is a girl? If schools are allowed to choose when to allow social transition, then what prevents them carrying on as they have been and letting boys into girls changing rooms and telling anyone who complains ‘there are no boys here’?

Unlike with adults, who can get a GRC, there are no grey areas here. Children cannot get a GRC, therefore there is no legal reason why a male child should expect to be able to access female-only areas and vice versa. Boys are male children, girls are female children.

Social transition is not any sort of legal self-ID of sex.

It's not me saying it, it's lawyers.

It's why the trans guidance was delayed when it was meant to be released before the summer.

https://news.sky.com/story/delay-to-government-transgender-guidance-for-schools-after-elements-deemed-unlawful-12923712

Is it? But, who is a boy and who is a girl? If schools are allowed to choose when to allow social transition, then what prevents them carrying on as they have been and letting boys into girls changing rooms and telling anyone who complains ‘there are no boys here’?

Ugh, I don’t want to be pessimistic, but it sounds like a massive climb down. Social transition of children in schools is deeply harmful, both to the child with gender dysphoria and to their classmates whose speech is controlled. Anything less than a complete ban is a disaster. This looks to me like they’re trying to appeal to parents who see the safeguarding issues without actually doing anything.

The EA isn't about making exceptions for people with special identities, it's about making sure people with protected characteristics aren't discriminated against.

What exceptions do you think there have to be for children with special identities in order to comply with the law?

If a pupil says they are non binary, I think a 'OK, and what is your answer to question number 4?' should suffice.

I think there is a balance to be struck between people feeling they have to hide aspects of themselves because they are deemed unacceptable (such as being gay, or not feeling aligned with gendered expectations) and celebrating and making a big thing about it in any given context.

A person's sexuality or gender identity (if they have one or believe they have one), isn't really relevant to the main business of school. It's the school's job to make sure they aren't discriminated against and to ensure the school community is tolerant of difference, beyond that, I don't the the equality act requires much else

I'd like to know what constitute the
exceptional circumstances

Because as sure as eggs are eggs, the trans lobby will try to shoehorn children into those circumstances.

And does that mean, that no matter what the children say, people don't have to adhere to it? So if a teen says they are non-binary, people can just ignore it? Including their peers, without any comeback?

Because, to me, that will probably kill it all stone dead.

If a child changes their name, pronouns etc in the classroom, how on Earth can the school ensure that the parents don't find out anyway? How would they expect all the other kids to keep the secret, from their parents, and how would anyone expect them to keep it from the parents?

Honestly, that whole line of argument is silly. If there was even a sniff of a risk of abuse, there are well established safeguarding protocols for the school to follow.

Clothes, hairstyles and names do not have any impact on the dignity or safety of girls.

About bloody time. Now amend the equality act to make it clear that single sex exemptions aren’t altered by having a GRC

There are many schools that get overly het up about uniform.

If the schools insist it matters and make attendance in classes dependent on conformity to their ideas of what pupils should look like, it's not unreasonable that pupils get het up about it too!

I’m fine with children using their given names and wearing standard uniforms.

I sometimes think TRAs believe
being trans makes someone interesting or special. Whatever you identify as, there’s more important stuff to do at school than get het up about your uniform.