A side thought ...

I think my answer is that I'm not that bothered about the motivation of men who want to identify as women, in terms of whether I see them as violating women's rights. It's all colonisation.

I think this category of trans is growing with teens and 20s age males. I’ve seen some discussion on Twitter about it, it might be worth checking out thoughts of detransitioners who post on Twitter and Substack about their transition and what led them to it. It’s often various factors and they are very reflective. I think the idea of not wanting to be men and if they’re online a lot, seeing the straight white male as being the worst category of person and thus getting out of that.

To be clear I’m not saying I’d want any of these in female spaces, but it does seem to be a thing. Alongside the 100% Malaga Airport types. And who knows if that or porn isn’t a part of it too.

Yes, exactly this, Binturong.

I think most are taking the view that pretending to be a lesbian is an offensive subset of the larger offensive act and are tackling the overarching point first. I doubt you'll find anyone (except perhaps the OP) is in any way in agreement.

My DSs (19 and 17) hate toxic masculinity. So they aren't toxic males. They don't need to be women to be nice people!

There is actually someone else who has posted that, but please don't tell others how to post and when, the thread is less than an hour old!

Incidentally he sounds a lot like a chap I know. Lovely kid, but deeply soaked in gender woo (parrots all the TRA catchphrases and gotchas). Genuinely believes that he's got some deep insight that hasn't occured to us boring old women.

And yet unless I've missed a post (perfectly possible) no one apart from me has commented on the idea that it's okay for men who want to escape toxic masculinity to go off and pretend to be lesbians.

There is a poster who has been recently active around these parts, who claims to feel this way about womanhood providing an escape from toxic masculinity.

I suggest a read of their AMA and other threads - which absolutely reek of male entitlement and complete failure to understand anything about women - might be enlightening.

If men want to subdivide the sex class of men into two or more different groups that's cool - go for it! Everyone should be free to say "No, I'm not like those others and I do not want to be classed as the same".

If some people, of either sex, want to define a new, mixed sex group and put themselves in it and fight to be recognised as a different type of human that's great - more power to their elbow! They have a long road ahead but that's not a a reason not to try.

But what's not ok is to identify out of your own group and into someone else's. That goes beyond defining yourself and into imposing a definition onto others.

A man claiming to be a woman is demanding that all women accept themselves being redefined as people with the personality said man belives himself to have because that is the only way in which his self-identifiation as a woman can be true.

And that, regardless of how he may see himself as better than other men, is an act of breathtaking selfishness, sexism, arrogance and entitlement.

Same. Here I am, working my socks off to prove that women can be awful nasty pearl clutching viper bastards. And it's all going unacknowledged. 😥

'most women think most men are toxic'

Really? Not in my experience.

Its not out of the question that hes lying to his mum about his motivation.

Its sounds to me that hes using language she is likely to buy into - running away from 'toxic masculinity ' rather than running towards something. Theres a million ways not to be toxic as a man, why settle for transition at such a young age?

Indeed Tinsel. It's highly likely his internet habits aren't known by his mum and OP.

He's unlikely to be telling his Mum the full story.

I'm gobsmacked that no one is outraged that the OP and her friend and the son seem to think that it's okay for him to identify as a transbian, as if that's even vaguely acceptable. It's totally homophobic to assume that it's okay for a man to identify as a same-sex attracted woman.

What? Of course I think it's homophobic. You can check my posting history.

Do you reserve your lack of sympathy only for males suffering gender dysphoria or do females that suffer it get the same treatment too?

op, I think it’s worth following this thought and considering it, thanks for sharing. Bit heretical round these parts though…

I'm gobsmacked that no one is outraged that the OP and her friend and the son seem to think that it's okay for him to identify as a transbian, as if that's even vaguely acceptable. It's totally homophobic to assume that it's okay for a man to identify as a same-sex attracted woman.

No wonder lesbian groups have gone underground. Ashamed to see no one here sticking up for lesbians. Lesbians, I get it.

I would think he is severely lowering his chances of finding a woman to have a relationship with if he presents as female. So that is an unusual strategy.

I would also imagine, like most people, he would not discuss intimate details of his sex life with his parents. So I am not sure she would fully understand the whole picture.

I do know a couple of men who are very into being a manly man. Many people constantly thought they were gay but they are very definitely not.

If every male that thinks they don't want to be tainted by toxic masculinity starts pretending they aren't male, then they are just contributing to toxic masculinity being a male thing that keeps perpetuating itself.

When can't men just be decent men?

I don't like other men. I don't want to be like them.

Ergo I'll go and be a woman.

A surprising number of these men, that don't fantasise about themselves as a woman, have this logic, without having any particular affinity with being a woman. They seem to see men as one thing, they see them in a negative way, and if they don't directly identify with that they must be a woman, as if it's an empty, neutral identity they can claim and in some way they can not be a man. Which is nonsense.

I think that calling himself a lesbian is rather a demonstration of toxic masculinity. Possessive, and entitled boundary pushing as well as massively homophobic and misogynistic.

I think you'll find that on a feminist forum you'll find absolutely no sympathy for any male that suffers from gender dysphoria.

He doesn't like the men he's mixing with or he sees around and he thinks he's making a rational decision. What has that to do with gender dysphoria?

There's a radical difference between sympathy and enablement.

Also between reason and excuse.

There’s no evidence he suffers from gender dysphoria tho. There’s nothing about being uncomfortable with his body but about being uncomfortable with the toxic behaviour of other men. That’s not gender dysphoria