A side thought ...

What a load of sexist bullshit.

I guess you can congratulate yourself for convincing young men that they are destined to be shit due to their sex.

Then re-read the thread. On the first page alone, DuckDragon and Luckydog7 also commented on the lesbian angle. (I am NeighbourhoodWatch, so not sure why you're talking about me in the third person.)

Other people wanted to tackle the OP on the unspoken philosophical underpinnings she was accepting. People are allowed to choose what they want to discuss.

And seriously, you've been extremely belittling yourself.

I don't hang around much with men who display the traits of Toxic Masculinity ("man up" "boys don't cry" "got to fuck as many chicks as possible but marry a virgin" and all the testosterone fuelled willly waving that often goes on. I was in the army - i have had my fill of all that bollocks)

If a man or boy wants to identify out of Toxic Masculinity - then don't be Andrew Tate. Be someone like Brian Cox or Patrick Stewart or one of the millions of other men in the world who aren't complete and utter cunty twats.

I am rather chortling at the idea that a poster thinks that FWR has been ignoring how toxic the whole trans issue is to lesbians. What with many many posters over a long long time pointing out that men wanting to fuck lesbians has been A Thing for ever, and whether it was to "turn them straight" (oh the 70s and 80s must have been a fun time for lesbians, amirite?) or because Transbians are a real thing and the cotton ceiling is transphobic, wah wah wah.

The bottom line is: you can't change sex. Some people want, need, prefer sex segregated spaces, and that is fine and good. (men as well as women) Trans people can bloody well find their own spaces, and if anyone else wants to join them? all well and good.

Because that's what jumped out at me: the OP apparently a little amused at the idea of this young man solving his issues by becoming one of the men who are calling my niece a hateful bigot and worse on social media and planning to prevent her event happening if they're not included. And the first three responses not even picking up on the lesbian angle reference. As far as I can see, NeighbourhoodWatch has been the only person who has, apart from me.

I'm not 'suddenly aware' of the lesbian issue.

But do keep pecking at me and belittling me if that's what you want.

I listened to an interesting podcast with Caitlyn Moran talking about her book Wjat About Men. Being a young, white, especially WC man isn’t without its problems and there are conversations to be had with our boys for sure.
I agree that being a woman isn’t something you can opt into - nature doesn’t work like that - , but I can understand why some young people want to opt out of the gender roles they feel expected to conform to.

I agree @thedankness and I think that a lot of these young people are mainly interacting with the world via social media and playing games online with others. Which makes the idea of identifying as a different person more realistic for them.

I also think that young people who are steeped in the gender stuff really don't see the contempt involved in identifying into the opposite sex (especially MtF) because they're so divorced from reality. In that world biological sex is irrelevant and what matters is the gender identity that everyone can choose freely. The notion of a power hierarchy or experience of womanhood being based on your sexed body just doesn't compute. I had a discussion with a man who asked me why can't a transwoman be a feminist? 🙄It's just a totally different way of thinking.

Ignoring, just for the moment, the horrendous misogyny that he is claiming to identify out of, I do have a bridge for sale if you or your friend is interested.

If you've posted here a thousand times, why are you acting as if no-one here knows what trans-identifying males are doing to lesbian communities? Why are you acting as if you're the first woman on the board to know a lesbian?

It's great that you are suddenly aware of how lesbian-only events have been forced underground, but why are you assuming it must be brand new information to everyone here?

Do you not think many of us are here because we've already experienced that phenomenon, whether first- or second-hand, long before this Christmas?

Im not really a fan of the term toxic masculinity. But its a good way to describe man redefining 'woman' to include themselves.

Not a great look, Erish, jumping on someone you assume is new and telling what they can and can't say.

I have no idea how new you are. Nor do I care. I don't take kindly to being hectored or scolded by other posters in general. You are unreasonable in expecting people to post in exactly the same way you want. I was posting about one aspect of the OP, the claim that it's a retreat from masculinity. You know me as a poster, seemingly. Then I'm sure you also know that I agree that men identifying as lesbians are homophobic. Climb down off your high horse.

In some respects women, in general, are better, though I could certainly show you exceptions. I haven’t felt any need to try to become one, or to copy how women look. I can try to emulate the behaviours I admire in some women, and the behaviours I admire in some men. None of that changes the fact that I am, for better or worse, a man.

If he does look for relationships with straight women, he'll expect them to pretend that they are lesbians. It's abusive to expect women to pretend that their male partner is a woman and it's abusive to make women live a lie about their sexuality.

It's made me extremely aware of how no one recognises how particularly tough this is for lesbians.

It is recognised on these boards. There are regular threads about it, as well as plenty of posts raising the issue within wider threads. As @Ereshkigalangcleg says, a lot of posters here are lesbians and many (most? all?) of the rest do know some.

Don't jump on people within a few posts shaming them for not posting in a way you approve of.

Just because I don't have a name you recognise doesn't mean I haven't posted here on a thousand occasions in the past. Not a great look, Erish, jumping on someone you assume is new and telling what they can and can't say.

Yeah, I know. And lesbians, who are bearing the brunt of this, get subsumed by straight women. But this guy isn't looking for relationships with straight women. He's going after lesbians.

Perhaps you have to know lesbians to understand what's happening increasingly. There's always been the odd bloke trying to get into the lesbian disco or come along on the lesbian walk (although because that involves boots and trousers it doesn't appeal to most.) Yes, it's a women's problem but it's lesbian society and community that are under the most aggressive and targeted attack. I bet the men identifying as women and joining the WI aren't really expecting to find women who'll have sex with them there. Too often men turning up at lesbian events are.

Yes I think this category of young men is less acknowledged than the groups of lesbian/autistic/abused etc. girls wanting to escape societal misogyny and older AGP men. I really don’t see a non-toxic masculinity or any good role models for boys growing up now. They watch porn from a young age which instructs them in violence and domination over women. I think some of these young people are on some level trying to opt out of their oppressor/oppressed gender roles. It’s totally misguided, offensive and further entrenches those stereotypes though.

YY.

have a lesbian in the family and she's recently had to call off a pre-Christmas lesbian event because somehow, despite all publicity being discreetly handled and trusted contacts only, word's got out among the local TRAs and there are threats of pickets and men invading and cries of transphobia and worse all over social media. It's made me extremely aware of how no one recognises how particularly tough this is for lesbians.

That is truly awful, but I think you are being unfair to the women on this thread. As Binturong said, people were engaging with the overarching issue of a man thinking he was somehow a woman, it doesn't mean we don't care that it's homophobic. In many other threads on this board the discussion has been had many times. Plenty of women here are actually lesbians. People will engage how they want to. You (and someone else) raised the issue of the inherent homophobia, that's good. Others will respond agreeing with you. Don't jump on people within a few posts shaming them for not posting in a way you approve of.

Yes I think this category of young men is less acknowledged than the groups of lesbian/autistic/abused etc. girls wanting to escape societal misogyny and older AGP men. I really don’t see a non-toxic masculinity or any good role models for boys growing up now. They watch porn from a young age which instructs them in violence and domination over women. I think some of these young people are on some level trying to opt out of their oppressor/oppressed gender roles. It’s totally misguided, offensive and further entrenches those stereotypes though.

I see you! I acknowledge you!

God, that makes me feel unclean!

Now can I go back to swearing and general what the fuck comments?

So he is not a woman-hating TRA who would send "suck my lady dick" messages to anyone. He just thinks he doesn't like being a man and all it entails (probably not considered deeply all the major priviliges he's already had in his life but that's separate) other than having sex with women.

And yet... he is explicitly zeroing in on identifying as a lesbian. There are millions upon millions of straight women, but he's going for the tiny number of women who aren't interested in men at all.

It's like he looked for a boundary to break. Leaving lesbians alone as a man is the bare minimum and he hasn't cleared that bar.

He could perfectly well continue to define himself as heterosexual, or he could sidestep it entirely and say he's exclusively attracted to women or one of the neologicisms like gynophile. But no, it's "trans lesbian". Given that, I would not be so confident about his internet activity.

Nor would I want my younger sister going out with him. The trans widows can talk to you about why.

for men who agree that women are better it can be hard to be male. I guess

that may be so but it still doesn't give those men the right to declare they are now a woman and a lesbian to boot!

This.

Is a very neurotic, self centred, shortsighted, fuck anyone affected view.

Was that aimed at me? I'm not telling people how to post but surely I'm allowed to comment not just on what's said but what isn't said?

I have a lesbian in the family and she's recently had to call off a pre-Christmas lesbian event because somehow, despite all publicity being discreetly handled and trusted contacts only, word's got out among the local TRAs and there are threats of pickets and men invading and cries of transphobia and worse all over social media. It's made me extremely aware of how no one recognises how particularly tough this is for lesbians.

OP how do women who identify as nb or anything else fit into this worldview? Do they want to be toxic men? Is a 14 year old with a cervix safe to go into a men’s changing room, men’s rugby team or dorm room?

Is he thinking of Ben Fogle or Louis Theroux or Professor Stephen Hawking?

I think a lot of this is extremism pushed by social media and it’s not good enough to just enable it.