*It may not reach every woman and perhaps just as many women have an issue with the wording as men do but if it helps a small number of women then I’m all for it"
Yes, nothing will ever speak to every single woman as we're all individuals with different opinions, so even if it reaches some who wouldn't have thought about it before or gone for one that's a good thing

If we're going to talk about men, then:
Reasons (misogynistic) men tell women to close or cross their legs:

• perceived promiscuity
• premarital sex at all in a culture where that's frowned on
• unwanted pregnancy
• more children than the man thinks she should have

Reasons (misogynistic) men tell women to open or spread their legs:

• vulgar catcalling or verbal harassment
• outright pressuring a woman to have sex

A campaign to encourage women to take up the offer of a screening test doesn't seem like the appropriate place to make a point to men about list 1, especially if by doing so it brings list 2 to women's minds. Addressing men's attitudes to women's sexual behaviors should have nothing at all to do with encouraging women to get a smear test. It's totally irrelevant.

You seriously need to calm down.

now we’ve got a ‘calm down dear’.

I am a silly woman, irrational, misinformed, stupid - great choice of words.

You are the only poster on this thread telling actual women that they’re irrational and not capable of having a sensible conversation about this.

The rest of us are saying ‘listen to women’. Even the ones you think are ‘projecting’.

You seriously need to calm down.

This forum is about having a discussion, not beating someone down until they submit to your way of thinking.

I’m sorry if the word ‘man’ triggers you.

The wording is designed to empower women and as a PP said who works in this area, it will empower some women and encourage them to have a smear test and potentially save their life.

There has been a lot of backlash from people on SM and the comments from men have been highlighted the most, which is why I raised the point.
There are also male posters on here too.

It may not reach every woman and perhaps just as many women have an issue with the wording as men do but if it helps a small number of women then I’m all for it.

Why is my opinion as a woman and all of the other women who have commented on here or on SM, less valid than your opinion?

You don't realise that UnremarkableBeasts is explaining that your messages come across as YOU telling women on this thread that they are silly and irrational? Which they do.

How is it misogyny if women call you out on it?

There’s also the weird additional attitude of judgement that surrounds the sexually transmitted nature of HPV. Yes almost, but every sexually active has been exposed now you’ve piled in a whole thing about how the cancer is somehow something you caused.

And the simple fact that cervical screening does not necessarily save lives. It’s not a guarantee that, if you get your smear test on time every time, any cancer will be caught early and you’ll be treated and be fine.

Indeed all of that contributes to some feeling that it is somehow your fault if you got cancer and it wasn’t discovered until too late. You should have gone for your smear tests. Shouldn’t you?

I had a good friend who died from
cervical cancer. Most cervical cancers are slow growing and can be ‘caught’ but she was unlucky enough to get an unusually aggressive cancer that developed to stage 4 between smear tests. The thing is, there should be no need to qualify any of it with ‘and she did get her smear tests on time every time’, as if there needs to be a determination of what level of blame she bore in being unluckily enough to get cervical cancer.

The whole discussion around cervical screening has been made problematic and toxic and it’s not ok. Campaigns like this one just add insult to injury.

The prostate cancer ones are very similar.

Eg give prostate cancer the finger.

You are just parroting buzzwords now.

You have brought up how men may respond to this campaign at least twice. You have cited your certainty that they will dislike the campaign as a positive twice. Each time, you have done this, to distract the conversation from how

women feel about the campaign.

Every single time, you have posted as if upsetting women is worth it, if it upsets men. ( I doubt it upsets men at all.)

How men feel about the campaign is irrelevant, except as how it impacts on their behaviour to # women. (I suspect negatively. That means they will be more likely to sexually harass women on the train.)

This is cancer of a female bodypart, so the target audience is: women.

Women's feelings inherently matter even if it will never impact on men in any way, because women have value. Why? Because we are human beings.

Women and their emotions are not simply tools to use to get at men. Stop bringing up male responses to this ad as if they matter more than how women respond to it! Centre women in our own healthcare!

Ahhh yes I must be a good little woman and submit to your demands.

I must not speak up or have my own opinion.

I must be wrong and you must be right.

I am a silly woman, irrational, misinformed, stupid - great choice of words.

And they say misogyny is not an issue anymore 🙄

Those campaigns tell men to check their OWN balls They are not telling men to attend a clinic to have a scrape under the foreskin. Its not equivilant

@Night409 And have any of those been displayed in a railway station?

Do people think the messages around testicular and prostate cancer are wrong too?

They’re all quite risqué too but surely it’s just taking the stigma out of it.
Which is the same with this campaign.

Whereas in the real world, going for a smear test is undignified and uncomfortable (even painful).

There’s a wait for results - when the whole thing is framed as ‘you might have cancer; better check’.

Quite often those results can require a trip to the colposcopy clinic, which is even more likely to create anxiety and may result in treatments that is uncomfortable and undignified. Plus additional screening.

This may happen repeatedly because of a positive HPV result.

Meanwhile, all the messaging around it feels dismissive and coercive. It doesn’t feel like an opt-in thing. It feels like a summons and multiple tellings off to make you comply.

Men simply do not get treated this way by the NHS.

That last post there @Night409 is a brilliant example of how the pro-this kind of thing camp simply dismiss women who have objections.

You’re just projecting and too irrational to engage with. (Silly women)

You’re just embarrassed and need to get over this silliness. Spread your legs; it’s empowering.

You’re just misinformed or too stupid to understand the benefits. Just do as you’re told - we know best.

At no point are women’s concerns or experiences being taken seriously.

Obviously you have some issues that you are projecting.

I used the word ‘men’ once and not even in a positive way.

It’s hard to have a proper discussion about something if you keep projecting your bias.

All I said was that some men with misogynistic views (or women) may get offended but who cares.

I do some work in the area of screening, including cervical. You could possibly argue that there are some women who will be influenced by campaigns aimed at reducing stigma/embarrassment, perhaps those in the age group where you're going for your first one? So for example our social media stuff which tends to be aimed at younger women will be about not being embarrassed, that the sample takers do this every day, nothing to worry about etc.

Beyond that, non-engagement is much more likely to be related to trauma/pain or cultural issues, and jokey campaigns will get you nowhere. For trauma or pain you need specialist clinics with well trained staff who can take time to talk to individual women and work out how to make them more comfortable - sadly these are few and far between.

Cultural barriers - we work with community groups to run small peer led events, where women can get information and ask questions in a comfortable environment for them.

Both of these approaches work, but they're not quick or cheap. This campaign is the exact opposite of what works with those demographics.

Plus mashing in gender identity issues in the middle of it all just confuses everyone whose literacy or English isn't perfect. Again, we target that group by working with their support organisations to create resources just for them, rather than making our general resources into word salad

I'm not in England but it surprises me how pushy it all sounds there - we've been told to avoid any sense of "should" or "must" because screening has risks as well as benefits.

You're right. I don't expect I've ever donated to North West Cancer, so at least it's not my money. Presumably their donors do approve of this style of campaign.

It seems to be a cancer research campaign, looking at the photo.

Using sexualised imagery and language to women who are making a decision not to have one is going to undermine trust - especially if these women have a history of abuse or mistrust of the paternalism of doctors.

I avoid them now. Never had a positive experience except one, from a female GP. I stopped going for this very reason. I don't need sneery commentary about me not being relaxed and making it difficult from someone who really couldn't be arsed about my background.

As someone who had abusive background, I struggle undressing even with supportive medics. That looks like an advert for the Moulin Rouge, not an encouragement for an intimate health check up

As a rule there will always be a certain % who don't want them. They should be treated better.

Then you need to look at why our rates are lower than in other countries.

I'd argue that the level of poor care and treatment by the NHS, the ability to get a GP never mind an appointment, poor previous experiences due to attitudes from doctors across the NHS (for completely unrelated issues) probably are having a massive issue and the money wasted on shit campaigns like this would be better spent on basic staffing levels...

Part of my problem if the entire concept of having to 'fix women who refuse to have smears' and the sheer difficulty of opting out if you want. It's really not easy or is ignored or is time limited etc etc.

'Women must be educated' as if they are stupid.

There's this whole element of women not being allowed to say no, as part of the language surrounding screening.

Women can't say they've made an informed choice.

Instead they are told they are being silly, petty embarrassed. And generally otherwise bullied and pressured etc to have a smear.

How many women go to the doctor for something else and then get harassed because their smear is 'overdue'. (Keep in mind GPs get paid a certain amount if they have a certain % of uptake - so there's a conflict of interest).

The element of trust is a huge one.

Using sexualised imagery and language to women who are making a decision not to have one is going to undermine trust - especially if these women have a history of abuse or mistrust of the paternalism of doctors.

It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue and it's the non engagement with the very people who don't have smears' that really annoys me.

Words get put into mouths by people who aren't listening and are only interested in forcing their agenda because their tick boxes surveys aren't asking the right questions in the right way in the first place.

It's quite clear from responses on this thread that there isn't any destigmatisation going on. The actual feedback women are giving is a mix of anger and 'eeeewwwww'. Why wasn't the material sent to an appropriate focus group because commissioning those horrific legs (at no small cost) and actively upsetting women?

Also to the PP who are arguing that the wording is to be inclusive of transmen and non binary females how are these pairs of ultrafeminised legs supposed to include them ?

Its not as if they havent been told time and time again after previous campaigns that the reason many women dont go is PAIN. They cant not know this after all this time
So the only conclusion is that they are wilfully ignoring womens pain. I used to think it was just oversight on their part. I dont any more.

No, no, no.

Those legs up there, which are supposed to represent real women, are so vulnerable exposed in a public place, where anyone and everyone walking past, can see.

Precisely the opposite of how you want to feel when going for a smear.