Helen Lewis blog of her WPUK speech

Wouldn't surprise me if he sent something shirty, he has previous for it.

Although if she used the actual word 'abusive' I'd need to see a transcript or hear the audio before I took her word for it. She's undermined her own integrity in this area (a decent journalist wouldn't change their entire angle because they disliked someone, for starters).

Was it Helen Lewis who laid into Glinner when he registered himself (in lipstick and with a coquettish head tilt) on a lesbian dating site, to make the point that is was utterly ridiculous that he could do this?

Yes.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/helen-lewis-is-a-dishonest-unethical

Honestly, the back-biting and assumptions here are making me quite 😡.
As this was one of five speeches about how five journalists have come across and reported on the debate and what motivated them. If we go for rubbishing sisters in the struggle to preserve women’s rights then we end up in the very purity spirals we get others upset about.
I don’t think Helen L is head girlish and while for me PP’s tactics and heavy merch-led influencer vibe doesn’t appeal, each to their own but we come together to crowdfund or to organise

"Was it Helen Lewis who laid into Glinner when he registered himself (in lipstick and with a coquettish head tilt) on a lesbian dating site, to make the point that is was utterly ridiculous that he could do this?"

I wouldn't be surprised if she did, Graham Linehan had phoned her up and left a very abusive rant on her answerphone prior to that.

Was it Helen Lewis who laid into Glinner when he registered himself (in lipstick and with a coquettish head tilt) on a lesbian dating site, to make the point that is was utterly ridiculous that he could do this?

I'll take Posie any day of the week. I don't agree with many things she says, but at least I trust her to be honest and not trying to position herself as head of "the movement", in order to do some deal with the powers that be that will ultimately harm women. These women affiliated to WPUK are just Labour shills, playing the pick me dance with a party that treats them with contempt.

I've always struggled to pin down where Helen Lewis stood in this debate. Her position has seemed to be along the lines of, 'TWAW except erm...when they're not', so I'm not at all surprised if she's uncomfortable with the directness of KJK and (I assume) Glinner.

I think that's true. She seems to take a middle of the road position - for example, she says she will still use people's preferred pronouns because it's the polite thing to do.

What I find strange is that, having apparently been involved in this debate for a number of years, she hasn't really shifted her position. Most women I know on the gc side started out making a distinction between genuine transsexuals and a minority who were using trans identity for nefarious ends. People would use preferred pronouns for the genuine ones but objected to self-ID legislation on the basis that it would make it easy for sex offenders to abuse it.

But practically all of us have shifted from that position to one where we now think: humans can't change sex, men can't be women, no, we're not going to pander to any delusions, we're not going to use preferred pronouns and we're not going to allow men into women's spaces, however nice they seem, no, not even if they've had surgery.

Lewis hasn't made that journey, it seems. She's exactly where she was nine or 10 years ago.

I've always struggled to pin down where Helen Lewis stood in this debate. Her position has seemed to be along the lines of, 'TWAW except erm...when they're not', so I'm not at all surprised if she's uncomfortable with the directness of KJK and (I assume) Glinner.

I'm a little more surprised to see her claiming, 'I arrived to it' (the debate) 'early'. That's not my recollection. In fact it did cross my mind that parts of her speech sounded like a woman trying to repackage her own history. But maybe she's always been too nuanced for my Mumsnet brain. Or maybe I'm being harsh because she's pissed me off.

I'm sorry to hear we've made her sad though. Cheer up Helen.

First I'd heard that a WPUK event was even happening, you're right.

And that's a shame, because they have done some brave and important work. Lately the collegiate nature of WPUK and FiLiA has seemed to encompass side swipes at the wrong kind of campaigner (KJK, usually), which again made me cool on them a bit.

By no means do I agree with KJK on everything, but she stays focused and does her thing without that petty playground shite.

I was curious there was no mention of the event on here. Am also surprised that fewer posters seem to attend wpuk events or FiLiA. The difference in my mind between those and KJK is that she is very much single issue and non collegiate. Helen Lewis is v much mild end of the debate but Julie Bindel was another of the panellists.

I used to be such a fan of Helen Lewis but I’ve lost so much respect for her over this.

That's the difference, isn't it? You like her but don't want to offend those who don't.

She blithely dismisses us as Feministing Wrong.

I've never read anything of hers that's better than the analysis I see here, and it comes without a side order of condescension.

I still really like Helen Lewis and I think she's very old school FWR. No offence to the newbies, obv.

The dominant strain that’s emerged is bug-eyed, paranoid, dimwitted and occasionally hateful.

I have been perpetually annoyed by the doctors, lawyers, scientists, academics, social scientists and philosophers who have dominated FWR.
/S

they represent 'toxic femininity'...

Weird how they call women bug eyed, paranoid, dimwitted and hateful on a completely different platform instead of on here eh?

Fucking cowards. Helen Lewis is fully TWAW so pretending she has been writing about this is utter bullshit. She's jumping on the bandwagon as it rolls into a station.

As they say 'come and have a go if you think you are hard enough'.

Indeed. Be you ever so much in sympathy with my opinions or aims - the second you patronise me I'm telling you to fuck off.

Fuck off, Helen Lewis and Rowan Thing.

The dominant strain that’s emerged is bug-eyed, paranoid, dimwitted and occasionally hateful.
I've never liked supercilious people. And attacking people with whom you agree on the fundamentals isn't exactly productive.

It has attracted people who throw around words like “groomer" - is this a dig at Glinner?! (Ooh nasty - I bloody agree with him)
I've not heard much from this smug Ms Lewis in these troubled times, and yes journalists should have been doing their jobs - but they are not.
She still believes in Trans by the sounds of it - whereas all I see are men with a fetish and duped young girls.
Oh and I've been following WPUK on Facebook since about 2018, their posts of historical heroines has not really been helpful or supportive whilst the war on women has been raging - sometimes I've found it insulting. Whereas KJK, Mumsnet, Glinner and the Mess have all helped immensely and cheered me during the most isolating days of my life.

And it's not paranoia when they are talking about you

Might she be sucking up to someone of higher status? 😇

If Helen and Rowan dislike women speaking frankly (and politely), the gals on Ovarit would give them the vapours 🙄

The dominant strain that’s emerged is bug-eyed, paranoid, dimwitted and occasionally hateful.

That's a puzzling remark from Rowan Mumsnet because, apart from being insulting, it simply doesn't fit the women on this board. Apart from anything else, we're bound by Mumsnet rules of civility, so we're mostly pretty polite. And I find the level of discussion on this board more intelligent and interesting than anywhere else on the internet. So I don't know what she's on about.

*disagrees

The dominant strain that’s emerged is bug-eyed, paranoid, dimwitted and occasionally hateful.

Um, I think I'm pretty typical of the "no men are women and I will not call a man she" strain of thought on Mumsnet FWR.

I do sometimes think there is groupthink amongst the GCs, mainly because no-one who disagree will entertain having a conversation so there's no rational pushback.

Her use of lowest common denominator insults in that quote shows the problem.

They really can't, and it boils my fucking piss.

I think there's room for all styles of activism; the 'please sir' staying-within-the-Labour-tent-regardless, Posie, the middle aged cowards like me who skulk about and fund things on the quiet...

But it really seems like there's a certain brand of lefty-academic feminism that would rather lose everything, than win in the wrong way with the wrong people.

Or they're jealous that asking nicely and starting up boring magazines and coming up with frightfully clever analyses don't get a tenth of the attention KJK does with a t-shirt and a clever quip.

Or a bit of both.

But it's really, really fucking tedious and counter-productive. Eyes on the prize FFS, we can do the circular firing squad later.

Jesus Fucking Christ, the WPUK women just cannot stop themselves from taking reputationial pot-shots at anyone who doesn’t follow their softly, softly, 'Won’t you please listen to me, Sir?' style of activism.

Standing For Women get out there among the public and change minds through tenacity, honesty and bravery.