Another BBC one <facepalm>

But how do other passengers know that someone is same sex attracted? Unless they are wearing a badge or a t shirt proclaiming it, which is unlikely, at least on normal working days.

Ash says Ash has given up wearing a’pronoun badge’ on the Tube. Do people really go about squinting at other peoples’ badges’ to see whether they should attack them these days? When I used the Underground, you were too busy looking for a seat or desperately trying to get near enough the door to get off at your stop, but I suppose times change.

Call me cynical but that's probably more to do with him being a big bloke who could beat the crap out of anybody mocking him.

Legs. Sealions have rudimentary legs they can lift themselves up and walk on, whereas seals cannot stand on their flippers and have to move on land by bouncing along on their bellies.

Above is an example of a sealion.

What feminists want is abusive aggressive violent men dealt with properly.

This would have the effect of reducing misogynist AND homophobic and transphobic attacks. Wins all around.

Unfortunately the establishment (BBC, Government, Stonewall and other major organisations) work against feminists to suppress any effective feminist movement and, worse, propagate a lie that implies feminists are the cause of LGBTQ attacks.

This is the source of the frustration at articles such as in the OP.

Anyone being attacked or harassed on public transport is obviously appalling and the perpetrators need to be dealt with but as someone born and bred in London and now living in a suburban commuter town, I would say that anything goes a lot more in London than outside and - as an example - a 6ft man dressed as Carmen Miranda would attract a lot less attention in London than where I live now.

Yes there are a thugs everywhere but I’ve always found most Londoners ignore everyone else and are less likely to point and laugh.

Over many years most women and girls have experienced a LOT of unwelcome attention from men. This is the problem and I suspect Ash was attacked because she was a woman. Nothing new. Which is not to say gay men and lesbians are also at risk. However I know of at least one example where a tran identified man was arrested tens of times for his behaviour on public transport. I also read about men ejaculating on women…I don’t think they would do that to a man however he dresses. It is rarely women who are the perpetrators. What is the point of the article?

I wouldn’t complain about this article. I have no doubt they feel harassed. But I would like a survey of women and of men (not in these groups) seeing if they felt the same as a comparison. I would have thought mums of young men are particularly worried about their sons on the tube.

Times I have felt intimidated have always been by men. I never reported them. Looking back, a lot could have been worthy of a police phone call (flashing whilst ‘playing’, groping, slowing down in vehicles and shouting, following).

'Tis the season when all the sealions wash ashore and flap their flippers aimlessly on the beach, making noises with each other in anticipation of feeding time.
Is it true they once used to be trained to balance balls on their noses in the circus?
Or is it just another misinformed point of view?
And what is the difference between a seal and a sealion aside from a Kiss from a Rose, anyway?

Harassment on public transport takes all forms. The slightly creepy, sinister unwanted conversation, to actually being punched or worse. Point is, perpetrators are overwhelmingly male. Victims are more of a mixed bag, female or male, elderly, disabled, gay, trans, and other macho or intoxicated males getting punched or worse. It's wrong for the BBC to pedal the line this one group is the most vulnerable compared to other groups.

This is very true - though many people stepping in for me over decades were unknown to me men as well.

I can only think of one occasion where a woman caused a problem in nearly 30 years of public transport journey that I've seen or had and it wasn't directed at me but at DH waiting for me and she was trying to use her bloke with her as a weapon she was miffed her train was late and looking for a fight and picked on random man at platform.

That's awful and a bit surprising.

I was in bus queue last weekend very small town - bus 40 minutes late leaving due to driver not turning up at change over - man dressed like Bet Lynch in queue not one kid, teen, OAPs nor men or women middling years or any age batted an eye lid.

I've done a fair bit of travel by public transport and its been rare I've had issues - other than seat arguments/delays/excessive noise - when I have had issues mainly other passengers have stepped in for me.

You do get dicks even walking around in public being female can get negative comments from random dickheads - doing it with young kids also attract fair few - and they are upsetting.

Being assaulted though that is bad and as PP said a crime- I do wonder if there's been an uptick post covid and I have noticed poorer behavior generally on public transport and in public areas more generally and more issues with transport services which does tend to wind up some people - I also wonder if less visible police/staff emboldens some behavior.

It's all a bit fur coat and no knickers (again) which is the hallmark of virtue signalling shallow veneer stuff and not actual practical action.

The actions needed, as Arthurbella says up thread, is to deal with people being dicks to anyone who looks a bit different. Plus ca change, even animals do this to any member of the group who looks different. It's an issue for a large number of groups, and it's about the behaviour/manners and not about the individual groups.

This is just another excuse to push a lot of 'most vulnerable, specially oppressed, more important/only one characteristic of value in the EA' claptrap under the guise of 'here's the answer we want to make society do what we say!' (and we just found a bit of evidence we can use to leverage it with). As opposed to 'here is the problem for all these groups, what deals with the root issue'.

'Hate crime' was and is a lot of unhelpful bollocks, it's caused more problems and done nothing to deal with the ones it was created to help with.

It's wrong for the BBC to pedal the line this one group is the most vulnerable compared to other groups.

Forgive me if I've missed it, but where exactly does the BBC suggest LGBT etc are the most vulnerable?

That is such a stretch so say that his cross-dressing may have been a fetish. Is it ok to be pointed and jeered at on the off chance it might be?

As no one knows if it was, the assumption should be he's just dressing in clothes that are considered feminine.

Anyway the thread is being taken over by the story of this cross-dressing man when the actual article posted in the OP is about someone being punched, which is an actual crime. The photo of Ash, who is identified using male pronouns, is very obviouly female. Not some guy with a made-up fetish.

Well if it was a fetish he was keeping it to himself.

Consent is irrelevant when it comes to what members of the public are thinking privately in their own heads, and also irrelevant when it comes to how other members of the public are dressed. I can't bar someone from the train because I don't consent to how they're dressed and I suspect them of having dirty thoughts. That's a bizarre and wholly ridiculous notion, although I would love it if I could ban see through leggings and teenage boys with their trousers round their thighs showing off their boxers.

We don't have thought crimes in this country and we don't police how people dress. Yes, there are some exceptions for offensive clothing e.g. the man who was recently arrested for wearing a shirt mocking Hillsborough at a Liverpool game. But not for if someone is wearing normal clothes.

I remember being on the tube, random man asked me "hi, what's the time?" So I made the mistake of telling him.

He then decided it was ok for him to sit in the seat right next to me, ask me where I was going, asked me where I lived, touched my leg a lot. I had to get off at the wrong stop very suddenly just to get away from him, and planned it so the doors were just closing before I got up so he couldn't follow me! Waited at the wrong stop for 5 minutes for the next tube.

Harassment on public transport takes all forms. The slightly creepy, sinister unwanted conversation, to actually being punched or worse. Point is, perpetrators are overwhelmingly male. Victims are more of a mixed bag, female or male, elderly, disabled, gay, trans, and other macho or intoxicated males getting punched or worse. It's wrong for the BBC to pedal the line this one group is the most vulnerable compared to other groups.

Statistically, this random man dressed in gender non-conforming clothes mentioned above, is just as likely to turn aggressive than any other bloke.
It's blokes who are the problem. Doesn't matter how they're dressed.

But how do you know if his cross-dressing is a fetish or not? Isn't he involving all passengers in his fetish and they didn't consent to it?

The last time we caught a train we saw a bloke dressed like one of those anime schoolgirls;very short pleated skirt,knee high socks,the whole works.

He was a big,very hairy bloke and he looked ridiculous but no one took a blind bit of notice of him.

I didn't say it was, but the point of this OP, on the feminist board, is to point out that harassment isn't unique to LGBT people and other people also feel threatened on public transport, plus a general feeling of scaremongering.

Ok, but the article is about LGBT people specifically.

This feels like exactly the same thing certain groups do whenever there's an article about domestic violence, for example. It's in the same vein as "but what about the men???".

I'm not denying other groups not in the LGBT circle experience harrassment, but I don't see how an article specifically focussing on that aspect takes away from women experiencing harrassment.

Harrassment because you're a woman is no better or worse than harrassment because you're gay, lesbian, trans, or otherwise gender non-comforming.

I don't think we can say homophobia and transphobia aren't worth bothering with because women still suffer harrassment.

I didn't say it was, but the point of this OP, on the feminist board, is to point out that harassment isn't unique to LGBT people and other people also feel threatened on public transport, plus a general feeling of scaremongering.

From the OP:

Obviously I have sympathy for anyone who’s been assaulted on public transport (or anywhere else!) but this feeling of threat isn’t news & is, at least in part, manufactured. If you’re told everyone hates you & you’re about to be genocided, you will be fearful; you will feel threatened. Arguably it’s actively irresponsible of the BBC to further stoke those fears; especially with the warped stats.

It's not nice to point and laugh. But this comes under 'manners' more than it comes under 'hate crime'.

I'm talking about people laughing at someone for wearing something they consider out of the norm, btw.

People are sometimes dicks. I really don't know that we can legislate this out of existence, tbh. There may be arguments for trying more 'be kind' type of shit in schools, although in practise this seems to be backfiring a bit, particularly because it acts differently on different sexes - women have 'be kind' ladled onto existing female socialisation that encourages doormattery, while boys take pride in rebuffing the bullshit and performative nastiness.

There are conversations to be had about social engineering, too.

I have previously pointed out that "we can always tell" is bollocks, if that's what you mean. In this case I certainly could tell, but that doesn't mean I could determine 100% of the time.

Ok, but your experience isn't everyone else's.

Some will be wary of using public transport because they're e.g. a man dressed as a woman, or a woman who's dressed alternatively.

A man got on dressed in a very feminine way, feminine haircut, makeup etc. Not in an overblown stereotype way, he was very fashionably dressed to be honest. I thought he looked great.

Not a clue how he identified.

You are, however, confident of his sex. That's interesting, as I think I remember you on other threads somewhat minimizing the fears of women who can also confidently identify the sex of others, and sometimes want privacy from males.

If I'm confusing you with someone else of a similar name, my apologies.