Emma Barnett interviews Endometriosis South Coast Steph Richards and Trustee Jodie Hughes

EB writes of her feelings about having to deal with questions at family gatherings. I suspect that this might well be something that has been taken out of context and projected to a generalisation. And without a link to check this for ourselves, there is no way to check. I have done a search and there is nothing that says this, it could have been in a podcast as suggested.

Lozenge, I think you have it. “Feel free to search”? So you’ll try to belittle and attack a woman, but when asked for your source/quote it’s not convenient. How surprising.

So there's lots on record about Emma Barnett openly discussing her infertility, and mentioning her own misplaced shame etc. Then someone comes along saying she said: "she felt childless women should feel so embarrassed about being so that they should leave the country." Of which Google shows me no evidence at all. 😂Tinkly, one might almost think you wanted to disparage EB among FWR readers...

How is it convenient? I heard it, I am not going to go through hundreds of podcasts to prove it, this isn't a court of law.

She is an influential voice and was implying there was shame in being childless. This is my issue with her. Fine to disagree but people using terms like twattery is pathetic and juvenile.

Well said.

She actually said "Any woman who is childless should be so embarrassed about being so that they should leave the country"?

Those were her words?

This is the point of misinterpretation.

I read it as she would be so 'ashamed' not to have kids she would leave the country. Its a slap to childless women implying they should be ashamed to be childless.

Talking about one's own shame does not in any way "imply" that childless women in general should be ashamed.

If Emma felt shame about being childless why should anyone care? Shame is an emotion that we can’t control. The idea that EB was telling other women they should feel ashamed is patent nonsense. And very convenient that Tinkly isn’t linking the podcast.

We haven’t got a transcript so we can’t analyse what Emma may or may not have meant about childlessness. Tinkly could have misunderstood - in which case, nothing to see here. On the other hand, Tinkly could be absolutely spot on - in which case, yes, Emma goes down in my estimation. Still, it doesn’t change the fact that in yesterday’s interview, Emma did a sterling job highlighting the issue of gender capture on women’s healthcare, and I thank her for that.

Is it time to invoke the spirit of Germaine Bunbury on this thread? There seems to be a major derail in progress.

It would be good to see exactly what EB said rather than an interpretation of what she said.

There is a lot of shame around childlessness for various reasons and that is something that childless women have to come to terms with. For most of us there is also the process of grieving and then hopefully finding something meaningful and fulfilling to do with our lives. If EB did talk about "shame" I can only imagine she wouldn't have been saying that women should feel ashamed but rather that many women do feel it (often because of expectations, around motherhood, placed upon women by society).

Would be interested to hear the podcast though.

Feel free to search.

She said it, that's how.

I read it as she would be so 'ashamed' not to have kids she would leave the country. Its a slap to childless women implying they should be ashamed to be childless.

I’d be extremely surprised if that was actually her view. Seems to be exactly the opposite of everything she stands for.

How do you know that's what she felt?

Such a weird thing to get your knickers in a twist about? If your path is not having children it frees you up as you are not stuck in one place providing stability or haunt to have a secure income. . A lovely work friend accepted she wasn’t going to have children so she ditched her high paying corporate professional job and became a herbalist in the south of France.

'where she writes about her battle against infertility and to have a second child. So ashamed she’d leave the country eh?'

I haven't read the Times article, but I have heard her discuss this in a podcast. To me, it sounded like if she couldn't have had children, it would have been such a shock and a trauma that she would have wanted to completely upend her life and deliberately follow a completely different path to the one she thought she was on.

Did she actually use the word 'ashamed'? That's really sad if so, and says a lot about the people around her

I think that the point that having an official role within what is ostensibly a women's health organisation opens a lot of doors is an important one. It sounds as if the founder/Chair may have already seen it as a vehicle for promoting her particular beliefs about endometriosis and her loyalty to the gender bollox.

As well as providing some personal validation for Steph, it will also help Steph have access to various women's health networks and NHS fora. Other charities are often more tied up in service delivery or supporting their client group and don't have time for endless multidisciplinary or multi agency meetings. Before you know it the niche views of Endometriosis South Coast would be mainstreamed.

I understand the argument that this is a tiny charity, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't do a lot of damage - especially since so many of us women have been socialised into being nice and inclusive (and, it seems to deny reality). It might also be more difficult to be seen to attack a larger, established charity, or something like a Rape Crisis Centre. I think Emma did a brilliant job and it will have made a lot more people think about the underlying issues and principles.

Tell you what Tinkly, you find me the article/woman’s Hour episode and timings where EB says “if she couldn't have kids she would move abroad as she would be ashamed” as oppose to “plan B I’ll take the chance to travel” and then I’ll believe you.

Well, I read that as a damning statement on how she thinks women who don't have children are treated, so I don't think it comes across as something a childless/childfree woman would be insulted by?!

She said it on one of her shows, and this was after she had had her 2nd child. She was prepared to do it. Sorry if that skews your view.

Do you have a source for this? I've had a quick google and can't find anything other than many features about EB being upfront about infertility, endo and IVF in the hope of encouraging others struggling with the same problems.

It is worth realising that the small fry hobby organisations can build up enough of a reputation, especially in a niche area, to be invited onto other community initiatives, such as new women's health hubs, and can spread their niche ideology into bigger institutions.

Organisations/councils/community initiatives are always looking for people/organisations to engage and it is convenient if these people know how the system works.