Emma Barnett interviews Endometriosis South Coast Steph Richards and Trustee Jodie Hughes

I note that Steph named Steph's charity after Stephself. I find that illuminating.

And unless Jodie provides actual receipts of this abuse, I'm going to file it under TRAs, subset Hyperbole, subset 'being disagreed with in even the most moderate terms = hate', subset Handmaidens.

It's not vile or abuse to object to the erasure of the word woman or the appropriation of women's biology and medical issues though. And I'm sorry but I really don't know or know of any biological woman who would use the violent rhetoric of witches, hags and being burnt alive/at the stake against another woman. We've had the rhetoric and imagery used against us too many times, especially once we reach middle age, it's a common way for men to put women down, I really don't think any woman aware enough to be vocal in this debate would use it against another woman. Did she give a source? I'd be extremely surprised if it came from a gender critical woman. It's easy to claim abuse and vileness and transphobia but they're just words and a standard tool to try and discredit GC women, so I don't believe a word of it unless I see it for myself.

Exactly.

Steph claimed they've been hired because they're good at activism. They set up Stephs Place, and now it's won awards or something.

But Steph is a transactivist. And the activism they do is transactivism.

I have absolutely no doubt, whatsoever, that steph will increase funding to an ostensible endometriosis charity, that is really a transactivism charity.

However, Steph's card is marked by women everywhere. From the daily Mail article:

Ms Richards, who uses the pronouns she and her, has repeatedly clashed with women's rights advocates, some of whom she has branded as 'terfs', and was previously involved in a protest outside the FiLiA feminist conference.

Everyone heard Steph's opening salvo in the interview that 'I'm passionate around feminism'. And continued to claim they're a feminist.

We are increasing public recognition that these people are the opposite of feminists. That they dislike women. And that is why women are outraged when they front up female charities.

(my AutoCorrect made that 'fuck up' female charities).

I hope other people interview Steph and Jodi and ask similar questions. But I'm going to hazard a guess that the woman's hour interview might have been the last one of that nature.

As we all know, the biggest promoters of gender critical feminism are transactivists. I suspect the TRA backlash that Emma gets is only going to strengthen her spine.

There is vile abuse on every side of every issue these days, and people are not necessarily aware/don’t care about the connotations. I think it can be problematic to think that it couldn’t come from one particular side, sadly.

I don't really want to give Steph's website the clicks by posting a link here but you can read up all you want to know about their background there, and a lot of stuff you probably don't, on their 'my story' page.

This is such an important point - straight out of the Dentons playbook. This is exactly what they do and it's why making a fuss IS important.

To quote a JKR character (who turned out to have a point in the end) - constant vigilance...

Steph is accusing Emma Barnett of bullying (not sure if that has already been posted):

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-head-of-charity-accuses-womans-hour-host-emma-barnett-of-bullying-tfrw0j5l8

I followed the link in Jo Bartosch's excellent article to Steph's LinkedIn profile, and it's remarkably thin. Steph is 70 but there is nothing about Steph's career or what Steph was doing before taking up activism. No sign, either, of Steph having any educational qualifications. Very difficult to see what might qualify Steph to run a women's health charity, even a very small one.

In the past there has been plenty of money earmarked for the support of trans people. Not least the money that used to go to Mermaids. Positioning a small charity to within the trans arena could open up a number of funding streams. Perhaps why they were willing to go on Women's hour in the first place. Within their bubble people are probably congratulating them for centring men and trans men, and they had not expected push back from either the interviewer or the general public.

And as others had pointed out it would have allowed access to various platforms interested in either women's health or LGBT+. Lots of attention, higher profile, more money.

Thank you for the transcript. Emma certainly took no prisoners there. Most refreshing to read.
I wonder if Jodie is now having a "ooooh shit,what have I done?" moment,or whether she's firmly convinced that Steph is an ultra feminist and that everyone else is a nasty terfy bigot.

Transcript = excellent, thank you. Going to listen for real in car on way to work this morning.

As I pointed out on another thread, the income of this charity is tiny and seems to come from a few events like a sponsored skydive - cake sale level of fundraising. It currently has no paid staff and its only asset is £2000 in the bank. However, it was only set up two years ago and that's no guarantee it might not grow and turn into something other than a small local campaigning group trying to raise awareness of endometriosis and lobby for more research into causes and treatment. Mermaids was a tiny parent-led group for its first few years and then SG got involved, and look what an effect they had on UK treatment of gender-confused children and teenagers.

Thanks for the transcription.

It’s like having an atheist Pope or a flat earther in charge of NASA.

Did you notice that Jodie says she's been told she should be burned alive?

I can't help but wonder who might wish to inflict that punishment on her, a punishment for witches. It seems extremely unlikely to me that it's a non-believer in gender identity ideology - it's just not what we'd do or say.

Well, that’s actually a relief because a) the BBC are not good at airing stories of women suffering from GI ideology in the first place and b) they didn’t throw Emma to the wolves for robust questioning from her position of first hand experience of the issue under discussion.

@Boiledbeetle Lovely flowers, thank you!

@Mmmnotsure

The BBC have apparently issued a statement ‘This was a fair and robust interview and both Steph and the charity’s chair, Jodie Hughes, were given the opportunity to address this criticism in full. Such discussions elicit strong reactions from all sides on social media.’

Updated Mail story
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12758137/BBC-defends-fair-robust-Womans-Hour-interview-host-Emma-Barnett-faced-pile-trans-activists-challenging-transgender-CEO-endometriosis-charity-not-using-word-woman.html

Yes, I particularly noted (apart from enjoying EB’s increasingly WTFness of tone) the self-centeredness of Steph’s reply re the question of whether the service users were happy -
“I’ve not really looked, I’ve received so much hate.”
and the part where the mask and the tone slipped a bit –
“Emma, you're pushing the issue.”

Steph repeatedly uses the phrase “I’m passionate around”: here these things are feminism, birth behind bars, and endometriosis. It is an odd way of putting it. It does beg the question as to what form Steph’s being “passionate around” these entirely female things actually takes.

Jo Bartosch has published and article in Spiked.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/11/16/why-is-a-militant-trans-activist-running-a-womens-health-charity/

Say Steph successfully gets a seat on a regional group, or a task force, suddenly there’s a tacit acceptance of (her/his) bona fides

Or that Jo or Steph leverages the existence of the charity to register as a stakeholder for NICE guidelines about the diagnosis and management (treatment) of endometriosis for use in the NHS. That would include the recommendations for the diagnostic pathways. Ditto for registering in a similar manner for NHS specialised commissioning services for women's health (or would that speciality disappear in this brave new world?).

And build on that presence in a national guidelines committee for consensus statements or guidelines in international organisations dedicated to endometriosis and adenomyosis or, more widely, women's health.

This is how the revision of DSM happened…

This is similar to how some parents and people in the arena of autism and ADHD feel that activists/self-diagnosed people are appropriating the bulk of the research/services money to the needs of themselves and other high-functioning people and away from those who need research or services most.

Capture the research, clinical guidelines and healthcare regulatory or commissioning organisations and, as WPATH shows, you can achieve truly eye-watering things.

I’m so full of admiration for Emma’s calm and methodical line of questioning. The centring of womanhood in the condition was at the core of the discussion, and the pathetic introduction of ‘men with endometriosis’ really skewered the two guests.

I think @RoyalCorgi makes her point really well, about this minnow organisation, but at the same time mission creep is very real in advocacy circles. Say Steph successfully gets a seat on a regional group, or a task force, suddenly there’s a tacit acceptance of (her/his) bona fides, and it becomes increasingly difficult to root out this bad-faith participant. This is a real risk, and shining a national spotlight can arrest it.

In the bigger picture, the charitable status and the highly questionable tenets of the PhD research (Jodie’s assertions seem wild when taken in isolation) would really make you wonder how the hell this ha’penny organisation has any credence at all.

Thank you @Mmmnotsure. A brilliantly accurate transcript that captures the ditheryness and then the belligerence in Steph's responses. I look forward to reading it thoroughly.

Thank you for this epic effort of transcription!

Do you not think it is possible that you misinterpreted what Emma was saying though? It does seem highly unlikely that her meaning was what you took it to be. I guess we need to go to the source, e.g. a link to the podcast to be able to understand fully. I think that is all that people are meaning.

Excellent- looking forward to catching up with this tomorrow.