DD feeling bad after mis-gendering sub teacher.

@Mrsttcno1 interesting - so what's your opinion of those transwomen who think that lesbians who would prefer biological women are being transphobic because they won't include transwomen in their dating pool? Or gay men who refuse to date transmen because they actually only want to date biological men?

Because based on my knowledge and experience same sex attraction is what the LGB is all about. The homophobia arises when someone identifies into your sex, claims theyre the same sex as you (when we all know they're not) and that YOU are the problem for not accepting them.

Your child made a mistake.

She thought the teacher was male but they were actually a woman.

No, that's not how she perceived it, I'm not sure why you think you know better? Men are not women.

I completely agree that your DD did nothing wrong at all but aside from any trans stuff, I'm surprised at how many people are saying how impossible it is to mis-sex someone.

There have definitely been times I've not known if someone is biologically a man or woman. Rarely but it's happened.

I wonder if this teacher isn't trans and they're just a very masculine looking woman?

Did nobody else in the class make the same mistake? When it happened did nobody express surprise that they all should have been using "miss"? Did other kids laugh at DD? Say anything?

The two possibilities are:

1.) If DD is positive that it was obviously a biological man and he just expects them to know to use "miss" without mentioning it then that teacher is bonkers.

2.) If it's a mannish looking woman then DD just got it wrong and went with what she thought. It happens and wasn't malicious.

Either way she's done nothing wrong and if any punishment appears I would be right in the school.

OPs daughter, if you're reading this, these are some of the things that pupils said to me when I was a teacher:

1.) You have hair on your lip like a moustache.
2.) Why is your belly so big? Is there a baby in there (no)
3.) Why can't we have the supply teacher back? They taught us things.
4.) Miss why is learning so boring this year?
5.) Miss your story is rubbish.

Etc etc.

I could write a list hundreds long. I'm sure all teachers could. Being a teacher with a thin skin isn't going to work well.

Whatever happened here, I can promise you that "sir" was nowhere near the worst thing that's been said to them in their career. Or this year. Or even perhaps this week. Their reaction was completely disproportionate and sounds like their issue instead of yours.

Ooh.someone mentioned racism and homophobia.

Who was expecting that?

Personally, I think it is very ignorant of you to declare that any part of it is a “lie”.

I wonder if not so many years ago you would have had the same attitude about gay or lesbian couples?

Oh please, if you are worried about lesbians or gay couples perhaps think about the fact that trans ideology means that they are sexual racists because they don't accept the opposite sex in their dating pool. That's the ignorance. That's homophobia.

Bizarre is t it?

Child doesn't want a hug from a family member? Absolutely fine, bodily autonomy is vital, a child should be able to say 'no that makes me uncomfortable, even if it hurts the adult'

Child says 'erm no, you're a man, it makes me really uncomfortable to refer to you as a woman when I know you're a man' Oh that's terrible, why can't you be kind, what about their feelings, you should be ashamed, be kind , BE KIND.

Hmm

Personally, I think it is very ignorant of you to declare that any part of it is a “lie”.

I wonder if not so many years ago you would have had the same attitude about gay or lesbian couples? You’re right, teachers are in the job of educating children, teaching them about the world and preparing them to be good citizens. It’s not so long ago that schools would never have dared to teach about gay/lesbian couples and those couples could not adopt, and now we have children in schools who have two mums or two dads, and schools who have adapted to teach children about these things so that some kids make 2 mummy cards on mothers day, or 2 daddy cards on fathers day.

The world doesn’t look the same as it did 50 years ago, where racism and homophobia were common place, and schools teach now to reflect this. I wonder if you’d have dared make the same stance when schools started speaking about families with 2 mums or dads?

Your kid made a mistake, the teacher corrected it so the whole class would know how to address them. What's the problem?

this thread is strange, so many people dismissing this child's experience and saying that children should be compelled to refer their teacher according to gender not sex, i.e. be compelled to lie.

Children are not props to the gender feelings of adults. They should not be forced to lie.

Trans teachers do exist. There was a FTM trans teacher at my DC's school a few years ago that I mentioned upthread. What is problematic is compelling children to use pronouns they are not comfortable with and telling them to 'be kind' when we know that gender ideology is sexist and can harm children.

No more than claiming a teacher ‘looks like a man’ even though they’ve said they’re a woman and no other student called them sir.

Well if it's a man who's claiming to be a woman, that doesn't make them so. And if it's a masculine looking woman, I'd challenge anyone who said they can't work that out after a whole hour in class. Even Buck Angel has very telling female mannerisms and looks very topically masculine.

By your reply, you clearly think respect is a one way street. Personally, I believe it’s disrespectful of me to be forced to participate in a lie.
I have no qualms about calling a male by a name usually reserved for females - so Johnny can be Janet, because names are frequently unisex. the short version of my own name is unisex. But expecting me to use an opposite sex-based pronoun is neither transphobic or hateful. As an adult, I can easily avoid being put in a position whereby someone expects me to collude in their delusion. I would never purposefully set out to cause someone upset. However, expecting a child in a school to address you with an opposite sex-based pronoun is just plain wrong. Teachers are not in the job of making themselves feel better, they're in the business of educating children.

If believing that you can do what you want as long as it doesn't affect someone else makes me "transphobic" then so be it.

I would rather be "transphobic" than gaslight an entire generation.

Just FYI "transphobic" is becoming so over used that it is meaningless.

She thought the teacher was male but they were actually a woman.

You are just making assumptions her @Night409

YOU are the one who made the claim that you can’t force somebody to call you anything, because that’s disrespecting you. I’m agreeing with your argument 🫶🏻

You are just another poster who is doing everything possible but admit the truth- that you are transphobic.

I agree.

Prepubescent children are much harder to accurately sex than people who’ve gone through puberty! Your example simply isn’t comparable. My sister used to put a bow in her daughter’s hair because people thought she was a boy baby, and STILL people cooed over what a lovely little boy she was.

How was the teacher presenting? Because it seems to me that the two possibilities here are that the teacher was a 'masculine looking' woman, whom your daughter read as male, or a transwoman whom your daughter correctly identified as male. If the former it is unlikely that she was wearing a dress and lots of make up, whereas if the latter, then unless the teacher was attempting to 'present as female' then surely everyone would have made the same mistake.

So by that logic then you can’t “force” anybody to call anyone anything then? I could call you Eric, or I could call you Mary, and you can’t correct me. In fact I could call you a dog, or I could call you a toaster, and you cannot FORCE me to call you a human being because I don’t want to use that term to describe you, so for you to force me to call you a human being you would be disrespecting me.

Slippery slope of an argument you’ve got there.

Not the point of the thread, but in my experience this is not true. My primary school friend and my friend's toddler both had short hair and were frequently assumed to be boys (by adults and children) even when wearing dresses. A lot of people assume short hair = boy.

I have on numerous occasions not been sure if someone is a man or a woman.

It would be easier for you to save everybody some time and admit you are transphobic.

If someone asks you to call them a certain name or pronoun, the respectful thing to do is call them that name or pronoun.

Regardless of your opinion one way or another. It’s called respecting the feelings of others.

By forcing someone to use a term when they don't want to use it is no respecting that person.

And telling someone off for a mistake for using the "wrong" pro noun is certainly not respecting them.

if students don’t pay attention or forget then there’s nothing wrong with correcting them, but politely and in a respectful manner

@Mrsttcno1 utter tosh. Children who correctly sex an adult do not need to be corrected by said adult. It is disrespectful to impose an ideology on someone who does not hold beliefs in that same ideology.