Non Binary Gym Changing Rooms

I just love the utter indulgent wankery of people being 'authentic about their gender' and expressing their inner selves, while excluding people with actual access issues from normal daily life.

At least you have closure.

That article was a wild ride. They did define sex and gender accurately strangely enough, and this quote made be laugh :

"• Globally, 25 per cent of Gen Zers expect to change their gender identity at least once during their lifetime." Really ??

Also, I can't help thinking what do POC think about being dragged into all of this ? The person interviewed acts like non-white people = non-cis which seems odd. Even gay/bi doesn't have much to do with transgender if you really think about it.

Gender neutral (ie unisex) open changing rooms. FFS how could any gym think that's acceptable? Trendy class or not.

Perhaps it all got too hard and the CEO knows that there is nothing they can say that will justify this really. But that they will continue because someone told them that this is the inclusive option.

As many have said, but most recently Lynne Pinches in an interview about her pool competition, how is it 'inclusive' if women are now 'self excluding' because of these decisions? To me, it really is becoming evident that those using that term 'inclusion' mean 'some women have to go without to make some male people feel good'.

Ah, interesting. I think they were hoping that the idea of talking to the CEO might be sufficiently frightening to silence you, possibly because of sex based stereotypes about how biological women (not the shouty kind that get everything rearranged to get access to unconsenting women's bodies) are supposed to behave. Little did they know that you are sure of your rights and your ground.

Do make sure, given they've changed the terms of your contract and acted in a discriminatory way against you on the pc of sex and belief, which you don't consent to, that they fully refund any money they owe you.

That's infuriating. Hope you also asked for a refund for any unused credit.

Think you'll feel able to go public now? Identify the gym?

How disappointing. I would advise that before you leave, try to take photos of the changing room and showers when there's no one there, to be able to show if needed just how inappropriate it would be for men and women to use together, you said they were quite small and not so private. It's possible the CEO has never even been there. You can also post anonymously on Twitter etc if/when you feel up to it.

Following with interest. Thanks OP for opposing this dangerous nonsense.

Possibly they work for the Conservatives and follow the policy of wank around for months making a few noises about possibly listening to you, and hope it goes away.

Sorry OP, I hope you get something back from them soon.

Brilliant work OP.

I have dds so I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

@NevermindNelson have you had the call yet?

Of course, that's why we're fighting for these spaces. It's irritating because the social compact has been broken and I don't trust single sex spaces as much anymore.

Yes. Some of the really determined boundary breakers of women will do this.

And this is when women need to be able to go to the front desk and say there is a male in the women's space who is determined to use the women there for their own reasons, and the staff are able to go and say to the male in question, you have the male facilities, or you have the gender neutral provided alternative facility. You may not invade a female only space, you may not remove inclusion from women and if you choose to be unpleasant about this I will be glad to call the police to remove you, and ban you from these premises. We welcome trans people on our premises, we do not welcome anyone of any gender who wishes to remove inclusion, privacy and dignity from women.

And before we get the inevitable 'but you won't know' - well if they pass so well and behave appropriately that no woman notices, what's the issue? Other than they are using and deceiving women intentionally for their own reasons and are a dick. The problems for women are not caused by well behaved 'you can't tell' ones.

With reference to recording the call I think that is only so that there is not then a recording they haven't consented to floating around, but if you use an app like otter which will record it and then create a transcript for you then you can delete the recording and just have the transcript which is simply a contemporaneous verbatim note of the meeting, which is something you could produce easily with a note taker or if you use short hand, and so there wouldn't be any legal objection to that and you wouldn't have to tell them that you were using it.

For example, I use shorthand and very often take a complete verbatim note of conversations and meetings but I don't tell anyone I'm doing it because it's perfectly okay and legal to make notes -the issue is around a recording of somebody and having that recording available as far as I know from my journalistic training.

But if you do use otter note that the free version will only record for 40 minutes before it stops and it won't tell you it stopped, so you have to keep a note of the time or put an alarm on your phone so that you can stop and restart a new recording.

The irony is that the CEO might very well be convinced and keep the changing rooms single sex, but the trans woman will still feel entitled to waltz into the ladies.

Excellent advice here as ever.

When I did a module on my degree course, we looked at change theory, if I remember correctly. One of the things that stuck with me was that it is that the people wanting to make the change are the ones to persuade everybody that the change is needed and why, what an improvement it will be etc etc.

So I'd stay calm, record it all, use 'mixed sex' and appropriate sex pronouns where needed, but only focus on the law and not insert too many hypotheticals, although I do find scenarios useful. Maybe describe how you might be naked, having just stepped out of the shower with maybe a small towel around you and there's a man in the room. Can they understand why this is not acceptable? 'Non binary' has no status in law, as far as I can see.

These people need to justify why they are doing what they are doing, it's not for you to justify why you need the status quo to remain in place.

It really gives a whole new grim twist to the 'get your tits out for the lads' thing doesn't it?

If you want to access this service, the price is to get your kit off for any male that wishes to be present. His agenda may vary, but it's not like you get any say or right to feelings about it whatever it might be.

I think this is wise advice
My bet is they haven't given this any thought at all, and just thought they were doing a kind/progressive thing, without mentally following through what the consequences might be.
We are all deeply steeped in the issues and can cite many cases that they won't have heard of.
I think having heard their rationale, then explain that you, a woman, don't want to be naked and vulnerable around a man - whatever he calls himself. Furthermore, there will be other women with additional reasons not able to use the gym under these conditions- conservative religious women, Traveller women, survivors of domestic and sexual abuse.
If they then cite 'but we have to, it's the law' then you can explain 'no, a lot of people think that, but actually its perfectly legal to have single sex provision I'll send you some documents explaining all that'
Ultimately their main interest is the bottom line, so who do they want to exclude- a large number of women, or 1 or 2 men?