Miriam Margoyles on pronouns

And being a lesbian would she sleep with a 'woman' with a penis?

@FlirtsWithRhinos probably when you're falsifying qualifications so you can register with the GMC and practice medicine 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm still not going to be an inflammatory pain in the arse if Sarah and work wants to be called Paul though, seems a spectacular waste of time.

I think that some posters don’t understand that already extreme trans activists have used people using wrong sex pronouns for male people has resulted in harm for female people. It can never be said too many times.

McKinnon / Ivy was very clear. They leveraged people using their pronouns to convince sporting bodies of the world to allow male people to access female sports categories.

These extreme trans activists have also now started to claim the word ‘female’. Because they keep telling the world that people accept them as ‘female’, meaning people use the female pronouns they demand as male people.

Ultimately, it is people’s individual choice. However, those doing so should not be under any illusion that it is ‘harmless’. Like fuck it is.

Well, she can do what she likes, but she’s not going to convince me to pander to someone else’s delusion. ‘My truth’, as the phrase goes, is reality. Someone else can have their truth and I’ll have mine. Thanks very much.

At the show Josie Long called JKR an arsehole. MM said that she disagreed and didn't think that JKR had done anything wrong, she then spoke about how JKR had got a generation of children back into reading and spoke about her time working on the HP films.

That's better than what she said a few years ago when asked about JKR in an interview, basically implying that she's a conservative fascist:

She has a rather conservative view of transgender people. I don't think I do. I can't make it out. It's a matter of personal happiness for people and I think that's what you should concentrate on. If you seriously want to become a woman you should be allowed to. You can't be fascist about it. I think it's confusing.

So your position is:

Calling a person a doctor because they say they are even though they have none of the attributes that qualify them to be so called is "bonkers" - no one would ever do that!

Calling a person a woman because they say they are even though they have none of the attributes that qualify them to be so called is "live and let live" - everyone should be happy to do it.

So where's the cutoff? Where does "live and let live" flip over into "bonkers"? What makes the doctor example laughably ridiculous but the woman example totally reasonable to the point anyone saying no is themself ridiculous?

Ultimately, whether this is pronouns or toilets or whatever, it comes down to this conflict: either a male person is made to ferl uncomfortable or a female person is.
It's the same old patriarchy: the male person gets what they want and the female one is expected to ignore her own discomfort.
The fact that people see it as so shocking that a woman refuses to address a male person in the way he wants is a dire indication of just how far we have to go.

I would always refuse to lie and use the incorrect pronoun which is not based on biology. I just won’t do it.

Too scared of the repercussions if they don’t.

I’d just say see you next Thursday

The problem with referring to someone by their preferred pronouns is that the person is asking you to mis-sex them ie to lie and many of us dislike lying. My autism, for example, means that lying is difficult for me and that it makes me uncomfortable.

Lying about someone's sex also means validating the false idea that they are a member of the opposite sex and this in turn leads to their belief that they are justified in demanding to be treated like a member of the opposite sex.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

I saw Miriam Margolyes on her recent book tour/an audience with type of thing. She said she will call anyone what they want to be called but thinks its silliness to talk about men in women only spaces. She also spoke in support of JK Rowling, and took a stand against the host of the event (Josie Long) who was extremely insulting of Rowling.

It's also unkind to expect people to tell lies and ignore their own feelings.

You should know by now that having any kind of neutral or positive leaning feelings on things like this will immediately result in bonkers, knee-jerk reactions like "should we call this doctor impersonating woman 'dr' out of politeness" rather than a measured response.

Thankfully, in real life people are by and large a bit more "live and let live", apart from a minority.

Thank you. I never thought twice about using it until I read similar posts to the one above on here. I will ignore the silly twits and use my proper title!

This is why with the pronouns

I will never understand why it’s always women who seem to be denigrated for wanting to use their hard earned title of doctor @QueenOfThorns

In my experience men don’t think twice about using it (and adding a ton of other “look at all the other institutions I belong too/qualifications I have” as well)

That’s great. It must be wonderful to be you. So why go around making other people feel bad about it?

I don't know guys... while I feel TRAs have taken things to a whole other level and caused a lot of issues such as the erosion of safe spaces for women and while biological sex has to be recognised for practical reasons..... if I am having a conversation with someone and they want to be referred to in a certain way, then what's wrong with just being kind?

The people you're with will have no idea how you refer to them in their absence, so it shouldn't matter one iota.

And when someone else asks you if that person is really a doctor, because they are asking to do something that is ok for doctors but not for everyone, what do you do then?

"Yes, of course they are a doctor if they say they are!"

"No, they aren't a doctor, we just let them call themselves one to be polite and keep them happy"

?

Christ. If you need the validation of a couple of letters before your name to make you feel valued then go for it. I don't.

Oh, you’re one of those. Why is it pretentious to use a title that you’ve worked bloody hard to earn? I’m proud of mine, except when people like you come along making me feel as though I’m somehow wrong to use it…

That’s always the question isn’t it @Catsanfan

man - I want you to address me using female pronouns

woman - that is lying and makes me uncomfortable

man - how dare you make me uncomfortable? my comfort matters more than yours!!!