"TERF Island" - Pondering why we're so "TERFy"

I don't want men in female spaces and I did not say that that people are not concerned . Most people are more than aware what a man is and what a woman is. Some of us don't let trans ideology affect our lives and when I say most I mean the the people I know and work with , don't let it take hold in our lives .

Sure. Yet, when polled, the overwhelming majority of women report that they not fully accepting of male people in female single sex spaces. This is across numerous polls from numerous sources.

So, yes. Some people 'don't even notice'.

However, any assertion that 'most' people are not concerned is false. When sex matters, people are most definitely concerned. The majority of the UK can be said to be concerned when the sex category of a person matters.

It doesn't remotely surprise me that 30% of the girls in a school year identify as trans. If you tell them that being a girl means 'having a girl identity totally separate from your sex', then what that says is that at least 30% of girls don't have this supposed inner feeling of girlyness.

So much for 'everyone has a gender identity...'

But you can't speak for the whole population and you're making a point of Lazer pointing trans people and picking them out . Some people don't even notice.

I agree re Labour.

I personally will not vote for a party that cannot define what a woman is.

Mumsnet!
The Californian tech Bro's platforms were completely captured in the early days and there was a blockade on discussing anything that wasn't pro trans at the BBC and media.
British feminists got organised earlier than some other countries.
The Labour Party were not in power, although the Conservatives introduced self ID they did backtrack over it.
The right wing press started reporting it and that is how we have slowed it down but I think it is in danger of re-surfacing when Labour get in- that is the real test.

Yes, and anyone who doesn't see how the two aims are compatible hasn't been paying attention, or doesn't actually understand the issue.

Exactly.

The history of feminism in Britain dates to the very beginnings of feminism itself, as many of the earliest feminist writers and activists—such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Barbara Bodichon, and Lydia Becker—were British.

This gender crap is highly SEXIST!

Are the Terfs the same women who spearheaded Let Toys be Toys 10 years ago?

The same query applies to Ireland I think. Of course we are both in headlong flight from organised religion and keen to look modern , progressive and liberal - as we imagine! Anything the churches have reservations about must be good.

And we get to feel superior to the stick in the mud English , perhaps. Change is afoot in both countries though , thank the non binary deity . Or natural selection acting upon random mutations in the web , if you prefer.

Agree with the point Britain has been a secular country for a long time. So when TRAs go on about gendered souls and pink / blue brains most people just tune out.

But also, British feminism has deep roots in the trades unions. More focused on practical matters like maternity leave and equal pay. There is no ' Left' in the US and Canada as Europeans understand that term.

"This is a genuine question @Aaron95 and I am interested as to what you think: do you genuinely believe that "who is defined as a man or woman" is not going to be of interest for most people? Once it's clear it has nothing to do with being male or female?"

It's not a matter of belief. I doubt many people care because it does't affect them

Maybe we're terf island because we can see that the definition of women affects the whole population.

It affects everyone if toilets are made mixed-sex, if medical advice uses unclear language, if our children are taught they can choose whether they want to grow up to be a man or a woman.

The trans activists really are experts in doublethink, the numbers are so tiny most people will never be affected so therefore we all need to make sweeping changes throughout all institutions.

A lot of the drive behind genderism is associated with financial profit in the US, from big pharmaceutical to Toys R Us.

Such a superb point.

I'm of the same generation as your DC, so was a child at the time the gendered toys were creeping in. I don't have that adult frame of reference for the change happening. But even then I've noticed how much more pink and blue things are now than they were in the 80s and 90s. And how the stuff that isn't in that vein is often more expensive. It's an excellent marketing ploy.

The explanations offered here cover most of the reasons, I think, but a major one surely is that the proposed self-identification was openly discussed in the media on TERF Island, while in other countries the changes seem to have happened rather hidden from public limelight so that most people were not even aware of them, or were told that nothing would affect anyone else but only benefit a very tiny and marginalised minority. (the nothing-to-see-here-move-on strategy).

I think this is a major one - a few countries did it very quietly (by design - the tactics of doing it under the radar were freely admitted), but it was noticed here and we made a fuss. And mumsnet was key, so were some very vocal and stubborn women - Maya, JK etc.

Because we do have a very live and let live attitude, as long as you keep it to yourself. By trying to tell me what to do and think, that line has been overstepped and the 'now hang on just a minute' comes out.

I remember enjoying going to London as a kid for instance because you could see people dressed in every way possible.

That said, that might explain why the backlash has been so epic here.

I think you're right about the harsh thing, which is why I find it so utterly bizarre that GI has taken such a hold here in Scotland, particularly as the Scots traditionally had a reputation of being quite no nonsense and holding no truck with bullshit.

As well as the fair play thing, I think we’re actually quite harsh as a nation.

We tend to pick things apart. We’ll shoot things down. We’re pessimistic.

A generation of strong women (and men to be fair) shot down my stupid comments growing up. Who told you that? Where’s your data? Why didn’t you check xyz?

Banter, taking the piss, football chants, public schools - the Uk is not for the faint hearted.

On the "You're unlikely to ever see one," front, my little seaside town has at least six I can think of. All middle aged and mostly dressing in some sort of Look at me, look at me! style.

Two of them stand around glaring, apparently hoping to catch someone's eye, or hear a comment they can have a go at. It's obvious, with aggressive body language. They have (independently) started to stand outside at least two cafes and glare in.

I'm a regular in one and the owner told me that she'd gone out once and asked nicely for them to go away and got an aggressive diatribe in reply. And continued glaring.

FreddysSquishyBollock · Today 14:43

Naw, because it’s blatant cheating, innit?

Yes, I can see that.

How odd! Glad your post came through.

@Ereshkigalangcleg No. I see MN HQ decided to let me share my elderly ramblings with you.

Was it because I mentioned "The Female Eunuch', a feminist text written by Germaine Greer, published in 1970 and an international bestseller?

Was it a crowdfund or an archive link?

MN HQ: Why?