"TERF Island" - Pondering why we're so "TERFy"

Yes, when I raised my issues with the progress pride flag being flown at our primary school (they'd been given it free by INTO!) it was strongly implied that I was skating on thin ice with my bigotry, as the flag represents all people.

Doesn't bloody represent the girl with a brace who needs help changing, or the girl with downs who needs safeguarding, or any of the boys with long hair (no girls with short!) who have assumptions made about them.

Age appropriate sex ed is fine and required. The ideas that come along with the progress flag, for 5-12 year olds, no. Not fine at all.

Strange bedfellows indeed! In Ireland if you raise any concerns about eg school toilets or women's sports , you risk being smeared as a reactionary tool of the Catholic Church.

Or a dupe of British Imperialism. Often in the same breath. I love pointing out that Magdalen Berg's mother was a leader of the Communist Party.

1. The NHS: in the UK, the cost of "gender-affirming" surgery is paid from the same pot of money that's used to pay the person who authorises the surgery (and also the same pot of money used to pay for everyone's cancer treatments). Whereas in the US, the doctor who authorises the surgery will benefit financially from it.

1. Maya Forstater: our right to say that humans can't change sex is enshrined in law, so we can say what we really think without being scared of losing our jobs.

"The same query applies to Ireland I think. Of course we are both in headlong flight from organised religion and keen to look modern , progressive and liberal - as we imagine! Anything the churches have reservations about must be good."

Oh yes! @Abhannmor agrees with this.

I have been part of a group of parents at a primary school questioning their PSE curriculum.

it's been made very clear by one Irish woman in particular that she wants her kids to have as much sex education as possible. Her knee jerk reaction to ANY sex education being queried was to think the group were being anti sex and bigoted.

Conversely, I also noticed a lot of religious parents getting on board the group, who were questioning the PSE lessons, because they didn't want them to be taught anything.

The left wing non religious feminists were being lumped in with these religious types who had a completely different agenda from one another.
It's complicated!

😁

I see dread people

No, more assumption , I read it and there was a separate thread on the subject as well .

So when you posted on here to say that Boots didn't say that, you were deliberately lying?

Ok! Weird way to show how unbothered you are about it, but you do you!

Let's get back to the OP, shall we? I think terms like "people with vaginas" to mean women is a great example of a phrase that just sounds odd and forced. The US loves its weird phrases ("reach out" for contact, anyone?) but I think the Brits are more used to criticising odd wording.

I've just been having a look at the Boots side and posted this on the other thread:

Check out the current page on Menorrhagia (heavy periods) - doesn't mention women or girls once

www.boots.com/inspiration-advice/health/womens-health-advice/heavy-periods

Heavy periods are common & can be quite normal for some people, but sometimes they can get in the way of your daily life. Here we discuss the signs & symptoms of menorrhagia as well as treatment options & when to see your GP

Periods are a fact of life for most people with a womb who haven’t yet gone through the menopause, and for a lot of people, their menstrual cycle doesn’t impact their day to day activities too much.

For some people though, heavy periods, or menorrhagia, can have quite a big effect on their daily life.

Here we discuss what menorrhagia is, what can cause heavy bleeding and when it’s a good idea to see a GP, as well as what treatment options are available.

When you’ve seen it it’s hard to unsee it, but what I see is lots of intelligent articulate posters giving clear examples and evidence about how gender ideology impacts women, interspersed with one or two (it’s usually just one, like they can’t get the staff or something) belligerent dissenters coming out with the tropes and cliches their predecessors and THEIR predecessors came out with. Posters who know and have experienced all of the impacts, actual or potential, including - in the Boots case - the language used to describe women.

”People with vaginas”, when the vagina is not responsible for the menopause.

We - women - were also recently called “non-trans women” on a cervical cancer information website.

Lesbians were called by Johns Hopkins in the US “non-men who are attracted to non-men”.

You may not notice or care about women’s words and single-sex spaces suddenly changing to include men, but plenty of women do. You are trying to argue with experts. Liz Truss was apparently like that at university, and look what damage she managed to do in 6 short weeks.

Gosh.... more of that pesky evidence. Thanks cat. I looked in the wrong archive site.

Boots changed their menopause page only just yesterday, after many of us complained, replacing "people with a vagina" to "women". Here is the proof: web.archive.org/web/diff/20231026074341/20231108124236/www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/womenshealth/menopause-support

"I shop at boots regularly , have their app and loyalty card was in there this morning and this "term" is nowhere and asked a member of staff if they are removing the word woman and was told " absolutely not ""

Oh gosh! Well look at that boudiccathecat. Did you photoshop this? Because this poster lettingitallhangout states confidently that it was NOWHERE and they even read the thread. How about that? They read that thread supposedly yet missed that by around 12.30 yesterday it had been changed. They are telling us it never happened and so your image must be a fake.

Thanks lettingitallhangout for pointing out that obviously many women are just fucking liars. Or maybe it is you who was mistaken perhaps? And that boudicca is merely posting the evidence that you so obviously missed.

I'm curious, was this meant to be a clever riposte?

You all see nothing else

That's up to us, no? We have to challenge this shit when it happens. Every time.

How wonderful that you that you feel so little about it but you still came and scolded women having a discussion about something that they feel is important to them. On a feminist board.

You all see nothing else .

Boots did indeed use the term. And as I said, great for you that you don’t feel inclined to do anything about the impacts on others. And you obviously are not dealing with teens who are heavily impacted or you wouldn’t be so breezy about this.

Scold all you want, we have seen it all before.

You read the thread and STILL announced we were all wrong, there were no such words as “people with vaginas” on the website and Boots are great because you have an Advantage card?

Gosh.

I take it you don't live in Scotland?

It's imbedded into our Government. We can't get away from it. Scottish women are fighting tooth and nail so it's quite insulting to be told that you yourself 'don't let it take hold in our lives' particularly when you have focused almost entirely on quite superficial things rather than say, rape crisis centres or prisons. Both of which are directly affecting myself and women I know.

No, more assumption , I read it and there was a separate thread on the subject as well . You can't expect anything from me because you don't know me . I won't be told what to do by queer ideologists , I also won't be told what to do by other women .

Here is the offending Boots wording from yesterday the 8th November 2023

It was changed BECAUSE the women on that thread all emailed and complained. But having not read the thread to deliver your fly-by scolding, I can’t expect you to appreciate that.

No you are assuming I don't have a life & family it doesn't affect. I do , I don't let trans ideology affect it and it really isn't that hard to do . Many people on MN are soaked in this topic constantly and being influenced by false information. up thread someone stated that Boots have erased the word woman and have used the term people with vaginas , it's absolute crap , they haven't . I shop at boots regularly , have their app and loyalty card was in there this morning and this "term" is nowhere and asked a member of staff if they are removing the word woman and was told " absolutely not " . But if repeated enough becomes fact . The more air time this CRAP gets the stronger it will becomes . In my place of work the attitude to trans trying to push their agenda is "woopdie shit , who cares " and just get on our jobs . They soon stop pushing when they don't get the attention they crave .

Mumsnet!
The Californian tech Bro's platforms were completely captured in the early days and there was a blockade on discussing anything that wasn't pro trans at the BBC and media.
British feminists got organised earlier than some other countries.

Mumsnet did play a huge role in how the resistance developed in this country. This issue has been discussed on the feminist board here since at least the early 2010s. Mumsnetters attended some of the earliest GC public meetings around the country in 2017/18 (WNTT and then WPUK, then SFW and others) and met up together at other events such as FiLiA.

ok. Lucky that you are in a situation where you don't have to worry about it then.

Others have it variously impacting on their lives, particularly as parents of teenagers who are involved in sports and are LGB etc. I have a high proportion of friends and even work colleagues who are currently dealing with various aspects where it impacts them, just as I am. I am also very conscious of how it will impact on my child's future.

That you don't feel that it affects your life is great. In the meantime, those of us who are impacted, or who can see benefit in adding their efforts too, will work to have guidance, policies and laws created or refined.