Dreaded LGBTQIA+ training approaching. What do I need to know?

The faux naive / questioning toddler approach works really well especially with people who are adopting a similarly faux naive stance in maintaining that people can change sex when they know full well that they can’t.

Sisterpita · 07/11/2023 23:10

That seems to be a good summation, especially mentioning May Forstater's and possibly K Stock's wins, which have settled case law.

I’ve noticed them putting “sex and sexual orientation” together and then only talking about sexual harassment(as if sex means having sex).

Also talking only about inclusion. Normally we have to make reasonable adjustments- we can’t get rid of all stairs so a wheelchair user feels more included.

If you don’t want to challenge directly you can always make notes and raise them after.

Good for you for pursuing this!

I'm curious about how the training constituted sexual harrassment?

And I assume you mean an unsafe environment for GC staff?

Read your article, very well done. Thank you!

Declaring pronouns are a breach of the Yogyakarta principles as you may force someone to declare their gender identity before they are ready to.

Also I do not have a gender, it is damaging to society, particularly for women.

Playing the daft laddie is a good tactic in these situations. Basically act like a toddler, “but why…”

I applaud those who would take a stand, and I really like the faux naive questions approach. Unfortunately I manage a young team of enthusiastic and genuinely naive enablers, so I'm going to have to take some unexpected sick leave if we're ever compelled to do something like this at work.

Well I think we are on different pages. I do object to being asked for my pronouns. It's all tied in with gender ideology which is inherently harmful and tramples all over women's rights. By forcing the matter in a group context, it's using peer pressure in order to get people to comply with an ideology they possibly don't subscribe to. It's also difficult to challenge it; as an earlier PP said, by simply not stating her pronouns when asked, she was then falsely accused of misgendering the trainer! People can lose jobs over this shit. It's so weird where we've got to and how quickly we've got there. Only 10 - 15 years ago, I would have been very comfortable discussing quite controversial opinions in the workplace. Nowadays saying you don't subscribe to gender ideology, and don't want to dictate the speech of others, or that you believe (know!) that there are two sexes, or even saying something like I think it's important we consider the rights/needs of women, could get you labelled a transphobe. It's unbelievable really. My DH keeps saying that everything goes in cycles and it will all right itself. I hope he's right. I can see the tables turning, but I do wonder/worry what is going to happen after the next election....

In what way? I don't have an objection to giving pronouns, where relevant, as long as I know what it is I'm communicating - that's where the confusion is. Am I saying I have a certain type of personality, or a certain type of genitalia? Either is a bizarre thing to ask, tbh, hence wanting to know in order to assess when it's relevant.

The trans awareness training we had from Katie Neeves peaked loads of my colleagues. It just needs one or two people to point out the training goes against equality law / is sexual harassment / creates an unsafe environment and senior management panic.

We even got an apology from the CEO that he'd allowed it to happen.

There is hope OP.

eg

so, you're saying that a transwoman ...is actually a woman?...like I am?

er, can you explain then, what does 'feeling like a woman mean'? is it to do with hobbies or something ?
(because my sister plays rugby and does all her own car maintenance....)

is it do with how you dress?
(because there's plenty of us here who like to dress comfortably and aren't bothered about make up)

no? not those?...what then?

My pronouns have always been sex-based, like my oppression has.

yes!

see this as an opportunity to peak your colleagues- you only need to ask very reasonable questions to do it

Thats part of the problem.

Don't murmur. It needs to be said out loud and clearly by as many as possible.

That makes it sound as if you've bought into the whole gender ideology rubbish.

Does the A stand for asexual? Perhaps you could get them to concentrate on that aspect of the soup, at least it won’t be sexually arousing to anyone (including the ‘trainer’).

Thank Christ National Pronouns Day passed me by.

I’d run a mile from someone wearing that badge. Or wear a badge myself that said, No thanks. Can’t imagine the level of self importance and absorption that’s involved in thinking this badge is necessary.

Well... that article does make it very clear that 'normalising gender discussions' is the aim. Though I'm not sure how honest that is, if the discussion doesn't go exactly as they want.

I wish I had the courage to say 'I'm not interested in discussing people's hobbies at work'

I’d have a terrible household emergency on that day. I couldn’t bear to sit through it and wouldn’t see the relevance to what I am paid to do.

Dont want to derail OPs request for help re looming alphabet soup training, but happened to see this article.

Not sure if this is BECTU's training or just a top down ruling. https://bectu.org.uk/news/why-we-should-start-using-pronouns

I simply say 'I don't have any preferred pronouns, feel free to use whatever you like'
It feels like a conflict averse side step which works for me.

Tbh the training industry is a bit of a Wild West - no-one is "checking" what anyone is told. I've had some bizarre training on equality that used very odd terms for non-white people. If it's open to discussion and not set out in black and white that's better.

Instead of pronouns you could say your chosen noun is 'woman' and politely ask not to be referred to as 'cis'.