Caster Semenya on BBC1 now

http://access.acast.com/rss/6100856531fd81f125b34dac/MTCHVCxl

Prof Tucker does another excellent job of explaining the science in his new podcast

Do any differences due to XY chromosomes show up in young children with this DSD that would have made him seem more boy-like? I know that there is a lack of response to testosterone in utero, hence the altered development, but that response to the type of testosterone released at puberty is normal, hence the normal male puberty. I'm not sure how if affects development in young children - I think CS has said they knew they were different from age 5, though whether this was just that there was a physical difference that could be seen, or whether there is more reaction to testosterone even at this age. If so that might explain why they seemed more tom-boy like, played boys' sports, wore boys' uniform, did boys' chores etc.

Is it possible that CS was considered to be a tom boy (or whatever the equivalent is in CS culture) as a young child and given relative freedom to do as they pleased on that basis? Even in cultures where there are strict divisions there are sometimes allowances made for people who are strongly GNC. Although from what people are saying this is not how CS has expressed CS’s experience in the book (I’ve not read it)

5ARD is inherited (albeit not directly)

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/#inheritance

which is presumably why it shows up in fairly predictable geographical clusters, the gene mutation is just more prevalent so a male and female person carrying it are more likely to
make a baby together?

But hasn't Semenya got a child with his wife?

Particularly with sisters in the family being treated differently.

What I don't understand is why he has admitted to that in the book.

It's almost as though despite knowing that saying he's a woman is something to capitalise on, he doesn't really want anyone to actually think it. Because there's no doubt he does come across as overtly sexist.

I'm not sure about 'dealing with the ramifications of being female'. In the book she says a lot about how children were expected to help with chores but that this work was strictly divided on gender grounds, with CS only doing DIY/fetch-carry-type stuff and her sisters doing the cooking and cleaning etc.

I picked up on a similar thing in the interview with Emma Barnett - CS has a victory display that is based on hunting. I am fairly sure that CS wouldn’t have got experience of hunting if he was a girl. He also played football, baseball and wanted to do boxing, again, traditionally male sports.

I too question this more and more. This DSD is apparently not unknown in the part of South Africa. Hence the athletic scouts knew where to go.

It is likely that it was quite understood what the condition was and I have yet to be convinced by Semenya’s stories themselves and other people’s accounts that Semenya was treated as a female. I expect there is some creativity at play here. Yes, it was on the birth certificate but the life described does appear consistent with that. Particularly with sisters in the family being treated differently.

I'm not sure about 'dealing with the ramifications of being female'. In the book she says a lot about how children were expected to help with chores but that this work was strictly divided on gender grounds, with CS only doing DIY/fetch-carry-type stuff and her sisters doing the cooking and cleaning etc.

Not trans because Semenya knows that he is male.

”Female” is just a flag of convenience that opens the door to success and cash.

Furthermore, Semenya makes no pretence of pressenting 'as a woman' at all. She presents as a male, acts in 'masculine' ways, is married to a woman.

Even if CS “presented” as a woman CS would still be male though. It’s pretty irrelevant how CS presents really.

Sperm producing legal female who is not trans... hmm ladiees. Really?

Semenya's case is complicated by the fact that at birth it was considered that she was female and so has grown up having to deal with the ramifications of this, especially when her features and physicality started to suggest 'male' very strongly. I'm personally prepared to call Semenya 'she' on account of this. This was not a condition of her choosing.

But Semenya went through male puberty and has every sign and indication of being biologically male. Is biologically male ( Her condition is one that is a male DSD) .Furthermore, Semenya makes no pretence of pressenting 'as a woman' at all. She presents as a male, acts in 'masculine' ways, is married to a woman.

There are many inconsistencies in the statements that Semenya has made. And through pics such as this, and the topless bathing one.

And that when a pubescent child who was designated female never started menstruating, but developed as if going through male puberty. Did they express concern at this in their biography? And if not? Why not?

The region was known to have a cluster of male people with this DSD from what I have read. I doubt it was unknown by the community. So, I believe there is enough inconsistency to cast doubt on Semenya’s words.

And it does shine significant light on their disparagement of the female athletes they beat.

What Emma Barnett should have said! Instead of all the fawning.

And almost like she knows very well that he's not a woman.

Please can you explain how someone with testes, as he himself has confirmed he has, is not male? What part of sperm producing is female?

Does anyone else find this an unusual wedding pose for two women?

I have no doubt that life is very hard for people in SA who are same sex attracted. Which is why it's even more disappointing that Semenya just switches between 'girl mode' and 'boy mode', depending on which is more convenient for him at the time.

He could have taken the opportunity to provide role models for women, LGB people and anyone born with a DSD. Instead I think he has chosen to obfuscate and mislead people.

Notice how his identity as a woman is given so much more credibility than his wife's identity as straight. Almost like how we all know the reality and are conditioned to prioritise male people.

I dont know about her but I expect many gay women in SA hide their identity, over thirty countries in Africa still criminalise LGB people. South .Africa doesn’t, but it can apparently be very dangerous to be openly gay in many areas of the country outside main cities. She might not identify as gay but many people who buy into the CS is a woman trope could assume she is.

Has anyone else noticed that whenever Semenya's wife is interviewed she's very keen to point out that she doesn't identify as a lesbian?

Apparently when they married he wore the traditional male clothes and took on the traditional male roles.

It's almost like she thinks women being attracted to other women is something to be ashamed of, which I personally find very insulting.

He's a man,a dude,a guy a bloke,male.

Trying to follow your logic, Ladiesssss, you think that Caster should not run in female sporting events but should also not be referred to as male? You said you believed a TW should not take part in female sporting events, so I presume you think Caster shouldn’t either? So your only beef is that people are calling Caster male?

I agree. Many people are referring to Caster as male but, to me, that’s for good reasons - that is, to point out the correct facts. The media was full of stories about Caster just being a woman with high testosterone, implying that Caster had been unfairly singled out. Caster themselves says that they are a different kind of woman. That has led people to wrong conclusions.

The facts are that Caster wasn’t banned from competing in certain events because they were a ‘different woman’, they were banned because they have a male body which produces normal male amounts of testosterone and which responds to testosterone. Caster can refer to themselves as a woman, but for sporting events we must look at their sex - just like when you said that TW shouldn’t take part in female sporting events.

If that incorrect and purposely deceptive narrative about Caster being a woman with high testosterone hasn’t been spread, then Caster’s male sex wouldn’t need emphasising so much. In addition, this narrative is repeated in Caster’s book so responses are counteracting that by explaining Caster’s specific DSD is only present in males.

Caster only got her Female birth certificate in her late teens. I believe (this is my opinion not a fact) that initially Caster was seen as female when very young, but as she grew (Caster mentions age 5) it became apparent that Caster was not a girl. Caster’s own Headteacher said they thought Caster was male; Caster wore the male uniform; Caster wore swimming trunks and went topless in their teens. People with Caster’s DSD have a normal male puberty. Call me cynical, but I think someone persuaded Caster that the ‘convenience’ of her DSD and differences would open the doors to sporting success because Caster could be registered as female and compete in female sporting events.

I can’t hear “ignorant” now without hearing Trey Parker (I think) impersonating Michael Jackson.

Let's flip it around...

Ladiessss, do you think CS is biologically female?