KJK

This version of KJK on Carlson’s show (from the official Fox News YouTube account) is up to nearly 900k views:

I do hope Alph isn’t trying to use Kellie Jay’s media success as a springboard to Alph’s own fame.

And this is where KJK excels, she doesn’t get dragged down those argument rabbit holes, she repeatedly states the obvious. That’s a man and he should stay out of women’s single sex spaces.
my favourite quote from her is “I’m not a vet but I know what a dog is”

So, @AlphaTransWoman - are you going to phone in to KJK’s Terf podcast this week? Put her right? Counter her statements with dozens of finely-honed arguments that somehow aren’t suitable for you to post on MN?

I’d pay good money to hear that.

Then you can take on Helen Joyce.

Not enough popcorn in the world.

Every debate point is one of:

• modern science. Sex is more complex than we thought, therefore sex isnt definable or observable.
• woman and men means gender not sex. Gender has more meaning for most people most of the time, therefore sex should be ignored
• be kind. It's societies responsibility to to recognise and affirm identity.

Edit: i didnt know i could do indented dots!

There is a difference between the seeking of a serious debate, and a random person, not representative of any group or philosophy or with any position of authority, having a confident belief that KJK would drop everything and present herself, panting to provide them personally with entertainment and attention. Hopefully with a large audience.

I don't think the lobby itself or its representatives want debate - it doesn't serve it in any way. And not everyone dying to hold forth on the subject to women is actually interested in either women or political beliefs.

Many people are terrified of public speaking.

I'm always amazed at how confident men are that they, without a track record of speaking skills, acknowledged by peers or at least 5yrs in Toastmasters, can debate a woman who is known to be a good speaker. Particular if there's a halfway impartial moderator.

The handful of discussions or debates that have hampered have largely hampered the women by restricting topics, restraining language, unfettered aggressive and biased questioning etc.

I’m reminded of this Momentum as featuring Juno Dawson wanting to skip the TV debates to avoid making people cringe in future.

https://x.com/peoplesmomentum/status/1118875758741606401

I mean, it is very cringey, just not from the direction Juno implies.

(Funny that Rick Astley was used as an emblem of embarrassing things from the past, seeing as he was this year’s Glastonbury hit…)

Yes, a debate is only ever going to be farcical.

We will have Helen Joyce or another woman stating that humans are a dimorphically sexed mammalian species, on one side, or citing statistics on male violence, etc.

On the other, we will have very marginalised people talking about their sadness at not being allowed to wear dresses. Or, as we saw with Freda, talking about their penis and fetish clubs. Possibly, I suppose, we may hear some vague assertions about kindness and/or a gendered soul or a 'wrong body'.

What they can do is help reveal the paucity of arguments. And sometimes some of the other motivations behind males who pretend they are women. So they are definitely useful, but perhaps not in the way that debates are usually intended to be useful.

After years of no debate, its weird when tra think its in their interests to debate. Its as if they think in the time they spent shouting at women, they've stopped women learning about trans ideology.

We know all about it, theres nothing anyone can tell us that we dont know already, theres no magic words that can persuade us that a man becomes woman, or that men stop being men.

Even if it were the case, and some smooth talking man could persuade enough people to 'win' a debate, so what? It wouldnt stop the reality of needing SSE.

Lots of people claim to believe TWAW but none of their arguments are strong enough to justify why a trans rapists should be in a womans prison, or how come amy george is definitely a woman until hes not any more.

Its no point trying to debate, because its not words that is going to win this, its safeguarding. And men pretending to be women is not compatible with safeguarding.

Dunning Krueger Syndrome is terrifyingly powerful, isn't it?

Yes, I like the way she gets to the point and sticks to it, much to the chagrin of increasingly frustrated interviewers.

I like the fact she is direct and straight to the point. She speaks without equivocation and I find her very charismatic.

Bad 'guys'- are you misgendering kjk

BonfireLady · Today 10:31

When I first came in to this whole subject, I found voices like KJK's too extreme (same with Glinner). I didn't want to listen because their delivery style ...

I think that she's just Bloody Well Had About Enough and is sick of being patronised, condescended to and shouted over by blokes who are arrogant, with no actual reason to be arrogant.

It seems to me that she gives it a chance, then bitter experience has led her to conclude that it's best to be terse and "For goodness sake!" to be able to make her point. She can seem abrasive, but it's for good reason.

“Guys”

You said it bro, you said it.

I first came across her years ago on MN and she peaked me. She was blunt and to the point when everyone else was tiptoing around being nice.
I've followed her in various ways and used find her very engaging but I can't stand the weirdly filmed tiktoc things she has going on at the moment. I don't use TT but she reposts them on IG and Twitter.

Yep. There is only one logical place to draw the line between women and men who say they are women.

No males in female single sex spaces. Full stop.

Women aren’t Penis-People, Women aren’t Amputated-Penis-People.

In one of the very few (only) panels interviews discussing transgender ideology, the proponent in support of it could only mention getting "f**d" in a club by other women's husbands and women shaming men for "who they really are". Really is this the best non-argument on offer? It speaks volumes. That mainstream political parties support these characters in any way needs highlighting properly to everyone who will listen. So yes debate away please go for it. At least Wallace was honest. Tatchell is incoherent because the T is in no way comparable to the LGB unless one takes into account views like Wallace's. Is it a sexual orientation or is it people trying to quietly get on with their lives. Does quietly getting on with your life mean forcing yourself into women's spaces. If it does it is problematic for the women who object and even for the ones who don't. I know we know all this already. But it bears repeating.

We were conned into believing that theres differences between different men claiming to be women, or wanting to be treated as woman or not like other men.

Theres no difference between blaire white and a tall man wanting to be in a womans sport.

Her views that women are adult human females? Do you regard yourself as an adult human female?

For those asking what is nonsensical about kjk - nothing. I'm encouraging the TRA to demand her return.

Gosh yes.

That’s defo been my journey too. Thought there were teeny tiny numbers of Blair White style transsexuals that weren’t a problem, didn’t understand what the terves where banging on about…

Cue the picture of the enormous, middle aged basketball player on the high school team, an accidental layover at Malaga Airport and Cancer Research rebranding me a ‘Cervix Haver’ and I’ve been one of the Fully Fledged Tervish for nigh on 6 years.

I’ve gone from ‘Be Kind’ to ‘Cock Off’.

When I first came in to this whole subject, I found voices like KJK's too extreme (same with Glinner). I didn't want to listen because their delivery style sounded (to me) that it would be hurtful to those that believe that they have a gender identity and have gender dysphoria.

I have a totally different "style" to both of them but I also value them both hugely.

I appreciate this is a thread about KJK and not Glinner but I see them both in the same way on this. With both of them I share common ground that a) children are being harmed by all of the ways that gender identity belief is being compelled as a truth, particularly in schools and mental health care and b) transwomen don't belong in women's spaces, sports and associations.

KJK's voice in this is incredibly important and incredibly powerful. I'm really glad that she speaks up.

This has been posted on Twitter this week https://twitter.com/melliehellie42/status/1720361618528157903?t=KcWmkcYO2vhjcR63n_RgOQ&s=19 , where someone is trying to say that her views from 5 years ago (for those not on Twitter, it's a video with her saying that post-op transwomen might be OK in women's spaces) show that she is a "fraud". On the contrary, I'd say that it shows that her views come from a place of reasoned thinking, where she has a firm foundation as a decent and caring human being; that she's not being unfair or unreasonable. Like most/many of us, she's had a journey of awakening.

On a personal note, my one and only interaction with KJK on Twitter was about compelled speech. I said that a poster was free to use preferred pronouns if she wanted to, and that I did the same (never a child, and never where context is important) because I support each of us having our own free will. This was in response to a KJK comment, where KJK had explicitly told the poster not to use the transwoman's preferred pronouns. In response to my comment, where I said that it was a matter of freedom of choice, she told me that I was a part of the problem. I don't consider myself part of the problem at all - I'm using my voice in my own way. Some people shut down when she speaks and she pushes them away with her abrasiveness. Some people listen to her and it helps them a lot.

Personally, I think her format to Let Women Speak is much better in person and doesn't really translate to MN. I also really enjoy listening to her no-nonsense delivery when she is interviewed on TV. I should imagine that if she was here on MN arguing her (excellent) points, she would firstly be held back by the rules (i.e. she wouldn't be able to express herself as she'd want to) and secondly she'd risk alienating people (like me) if they try and interact on some of the nuances. I'm very comfortable in my own understanding of what is harmful in relation to gender identity belief and, while I'll accept that it's possible that I'm still on a peaking journey, I don't need to be whacked around the head with blunt comments telling me that I'm part of the problem.

No one ever seems to do this though do they! They pontificate about all the things they would say to put that woman in her place and yet don't seem to grasp the fact that they can call her every Tuesday and actually talk to her!

I wonder why they all seen to be so busy that they miss the opportunity week after week after week after week!

*Catsanfan" · Today 09:34

I mean indeed, if Peter 'let's fuck children' Tatchell has to step in, you know you're done for.

Well, quite...