Policing women’s clothes or reasonable expectation?

OP are the girls allowed to wear trousers?

Children need to have boundaries and often don't realise the implications of, for example, fishnets, heels and short skirts. So sometimes these rules are for their safety and wellbeing. It can be hard if we don't want to explain the problems to girls too young to understand.

Edit for garbled syntax

We used to have these checks when I was at school, most girls weren’t bothered and grumbled and unrolled their skirts, parents of some girls who’d had them turned up were contacted (although I’m guessing parents knew they were having them altered) and I was exampt as the teacher doing checks had enough sense to see I was wearing hand me downs and hadn’t chosen a short skirt.

I think it was all part of cat and mouse of being students and teachers. Pushing boundaries and getting away with it and then not getting away with it. Teenagers know the uniform policy and they choose to take a risk they’ll get away with it. The ones who can’t handle being caught out, don’t do it.

Surely most families are constrained by distance and admissions policy wrt boundaries? So the idea of a choice is not really accurate.

“They also did this at my DCs school. Where the school skirt costs £25 and is only available from one supplier, the boys trousers can be bought from a supermarket. The skirt only comes in one length per waist measurement, so if you are tall and skinny you have to chose between meeting the school on the knee length or it falling off at the waist - it's got an adjustable elastic waist button but no belt loops or anything. It's beyond archaic.”

@DisingenuousBatshittery I can see that this is really annoying (and I would get rid of uniforms completely) but the solution is for you to learn to use a needle and thread, or teach your DD to. Taking in a skirt or adding belt loots to it is an incredibly simple task. The solution isn’t for girls to have too short akirts it’s for parents to learn some basic sewing skills and adjust the too big waist.

Then you are not aware of the harassment that goes on in co-ed schools. I don't see short skirts as rebellion against anything but Puritanical attitudes but I was not allowed to wear mini skirts to school. Outside, yes, though my father was a bit dubious! Appropriateness is the key. Very short skirts are not appropriate in school.

Torn on this.
The way it was done makes me very uncomfortable, the rule not so much.
I take on board the peer pressure aspect to wear skirts shorter muddying the issue.
I'd be curious about what the girls' thoughts and experiences of the whole issue might be if they were asked to participate in an anonymous survey. Having had two children go through a none uniform school and then sixth form, I'm not aware of the same sort of issues when the children have complete freedom over what to wear.

Looking back on my own school days we had a rule around skirts that no one followed, however we then had to wear tiny pe skirts which made any other skirt rules pointless anyway. No one would be seen dead in the school issue pe knickers we were meant to wear under.

A battle that schools have been losing since the 1960's.
FWIW why bother? I can see the value in the arguments about not making the kids who don't wear skirts short stand out but that's a poor reason.
Foster school identity and pride in other ways, make sure girls know their value beyond their appearance but don't stigmatise showing some skin..

“I am really uncomfortable about this.
On the one hand it’s the uniform policy so it’s what we signed up to.
On the other hand I couldn’t help but look at the girls being herded into a corner of the playground and feel uncomfortable. And I also think that skirt length should be personal choice for young women - it doesn’t impact their learning so why does it matter? “

By targeting the female pupils in this way the school is giving the female pupils a learning experience - learning that how they look and what they wear is more important than their academic achievements; learning that their purpose in life is to be subjected to scrutiny for their appearance; learning that if a middle aged man finds their appearance arousing that’s their fault and not his responsibility to be more professional.

Naw, just have the same policy as the boy’s supermarket trousers, right colour, right shape, no more detailed than that.

George do a great dupe for the standard Trutex sticged down pleated for a third of the price, at two for £12 rather than £18 each it’s a lot less onerous to replace them when the student has a upwards growth spurt.

The coloured waistband seems like a. bonkers waste (pun intended) of money when jumpers exist! Amazed that no one pointed it out before the policy was announced.

My daughter jokes that in her school, girls pull their waistbands down around their hips, rather than roll them up!

As with most of these things you have to strip this right back. Why do women want to show of their legs? What is it about a short skirt that is attractive to them? ( especially as teachers above have said they spend a lot of time trying not to show their underwear)

Why do women also want to show of cleavage? Why do men not want to show off their legs unless it's for practical reasons?

The whole of women's dress is about sex, attracting a mate. If women want to choose to wear a short skirt why are they choosing that? Young women won't be consciously thinking why, it's just part of the paradigm of being a woman.

At my upper school (13-18) girls had the choice of skirts or trousers, but ~95% of us chose trousers (which had fairly decent pockets). I wonder how many would choose trousers now.

Placing a policy decreases peer pressure to those girls not wanting or even dreading wearing short skirts who for many reasons have not learnt to use their voice.

Because then you'd have to police which pleated skirt from which supermarket? And also this girls uniform skirt specifies a coloured waistband, which was supposed to prevent the girls from rolling up their skirts as if their skirts weren't rolled up, then their waistbands would be visible. Obviously that worked for about 2 seconds before someone discovered how jumpers work.

They presumably do stretch, bend and (as PP mentioned) walk up stairs and even just walk. Suggesting that children should show their underwear as a solution is, in my view, bizarre. Plus girls don't want to show their underwear (even the shorts) and therefore limit their own movements or are constantly trying to adjust their clothes, which also limits them. Shorts are useful for girls who worry about circumstances such as gusts of wind or falling over.

You're being ridiculous. They are enforcing a school uniform policy which you agreed to when they joined the school

@Givemepickles it's an interesting question in a country that doesn't promote modesty. I would love to see an end to work place and school uniforms/dress codes. I would draw a line at a bikini's from a hygiene point of view however crop tops and cycling shorts in summer not a problem.

I work in a smart casual environment however I'm also expected to provide the same answer at home at 2am in my PJ's.

I think the key issue here is choice. You, and the other parents, chose to send your kids to school with this uniform policy.
If you do not like it, change schools or lobby for a change of the policy.

As a feminist, teacher and a parent, skirt length should be addressed. When girls roll their skirts so short that they walk upstairs clutching their skirt hem in case people see up their skirt, they need a word.

I don't think there is an actual solution to this.

All of society agrees there has to be standards for decency and safety. So a line has to be drawn somewhere, and that line needs to be enforced. Doesn't matter if its a uniform or just a dress code.

But girls do seem to get the short stick. Trousers too tight, skirts too short, shorts too short...

With uniform there us the financial factor as well.... is it fair to punish a child if a parent can't instantly replace an item which is outgrown or damaged?

Short skirts limit what girls can do in terms of running, stretching, bending (v long skirts also limit, though to a lesser.extent). They are a fashion choice and when children roll up their skirts at school they are deliberately pushing boundaries/trying to fit in. How schools tackle it is a different matter, but it would help of parents supported the policy.

Presumably they would have done the same with the boys, if the uniform specified long trousers but lots of them wore shorts.