Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Philippa Gregory thinks that two sexes, male and female, is a "myth"

142 replies

Fenlandia · 30/10/2023 17:33

According to journalist Susan Dalgety's Substack (a good read), the author Philippa Gregory, who has sold gazillions of historical fiction novels, thinks there are more sexes than we first thought!

https://susandalgety.substack.com/p/philippa-gregory-may-be-a-bestselling

Here is the quote from Dalgety:

"Philippa Gregory, who prides herself as a feminist, does not believe in the “myth of two sexes.” She writes glowingly of a modern world where it is impossible to divide humans into two categories, male and female. “It is as fictional as a sorting hat – we are more diverse than and more varied, and more changeable over time, in a richer multiple word than the binary model…” And she points out that in the 1990s, American sexologist, Anne Fausto-Sterling, counted five sexes (male, female, merm, ferm and herm), while French scientist Eric Vilain suggested an “infinite number of biological genders.” It was at this point I dropped my coffee cup."

And yet again with the tedious trope that in order for people to be interesting and the world to be diverse, we must dispense with the fact of the sex binary by which every single human has been produced, ever.

Philippa Gregory may be a bestselling historical novelist, but facts still matter

Author of Normal Women believes that two sexes, male and female, is a "myth"

https://susandalgety.substack.com/p/philippa-gregory-may-be-a-bestselling

OP posts:
Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:20

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 09/02/2024 05:39

No there isn't. Hermaphrodite is an outdated and inaccurate term. There are people with disorders of sexual development who are ALL either male with a male specific disorder or female with a female specific disorder.

DSDs affect only 0.017% of the population, they aren't common.

Edited

Whatever the term is, they do exist. And given there are so many transgender people around and I'm sure it's not a 'lifestyle' most would choose so many of the comments here are so ignorant and dismissive. I bet people were like this about gay people too about 50 years ago.

Igneococcus · 09/02/2024 06:04

Hermaphrodite is an outdated and inaccurate term.

It isn't, it's not outdated or inaccurate in mollusks or tunicates, also in flowering plants, but it's extremely rare in vertebrates and unheard of in mammals and also in birds. I think people who bring the term up to claim there are more than two sexes have no idea what it means.

SilverBranchGoldenPears · 09/02/2024 05:43

Well she can think what she likes. She is of course entitled to her opinion just as we are entitled to think she is a wagon jumper of the worst kind.

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 09/02/2024 05:39

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 05:06

Erm, there is such a think as hermaphrodites? Its actually quite common

No there isn't. Hermaphrodite is an outdated and inaccurate term. There are people with disorders of sexual development who are ALL either male with a male specific disorder or female with a female specific disorder.

DSDs affect only 0.017% of the population, they aren't common.

Reallybadidea · 09/02/2024 05:18

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 05:06

Erm, there is such a think as hermaphrodites? Its actually quite common

*citation needed

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 05:06

EverySporkIsSacred · 30/10/2023 18:06

I don't believe in "the myth of two sexes" either because its a FACT

Erm, there is such a think as hermaphrodites? Its actually quite common

WandaWonder · 09/02/2024 04:39

So has she (or anyone) come up with an actual example for someone of the 3,4,5 etc. sex, and if anyone suggests a book I could read on it that is proably the mess the author has got themselves in the first place

DaSilvaP · 09/02/2024 04:35

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2023 18:54

Why do supposedly intelligent people get confused by something as simple as the difference between sex (two, biological, dimorphic, non-interchangeable in mammals) and 'gender' (as many as you want, culturally variable etc).?

Or to rephrase it in plain speak:

why do supposedly intellectually honest people keep deliberately confusing what is easy and simple to tell apart?

Sickoffamilydrama · 08/02/2024 21:25

I thought the explanation of how Women were supposed to have to orgasm to conceive in the 14th century so men were expected to know how to make them orgasm to women aren't even supposed to want sex by the 18th century interesting.

If this is true, might have to clear my search history medieval sex and orgasm might throw up some interesting ads 🤣

Sickoffamilydrama · 08/02/2024 21:20

Reviving the thread not that anyone might be interested as I knew her book would have been discussed here!

I wonder how well researched it is I'm listening to it on audible so can't see the references?

Such a shame as if factual she sets out the history of women over time well.

Delphinium20 · 31/10/2023 15:55

I believe it was Christopher Hitchens who said, "If you make an extraordinary claim, you need extraordinary evidence." I'd like to hear from PG her 'extraordinary evidence', or even an example, to support her claim that two sexes are a myth. Is she in possession of a petri dish with a new gamete? May we look through her magical microscope and see?

Donkeyseason · 31/10/2023 13:33

Just read that extract from her book! It’s mind numbingly stupid! These are the terrible arguments you have to create to defend gender ideology.

DuesToTheDirt · 31/10/2023 13:26

MargotBamborough · 30/10/2023 22:48

I can't take much more stupid.

Absolutely this.

BreatheAndFocus · 31/10/2023 13:13

ErrolTheDragon · 30/10/2023 18:54

Why do supposedly intelligent people get confused by something as simple as the difference between sex (two, biological, dimorphic, non-interchangeable in mammals) and 'gender' (as many as you want, culturally variable etc).?

Because despite their professed progressiveness, they’re actually quite conservative and can’t perceive a feminine man as a ‘real man’ and a masculine woman as still a woman.

Scratch a ‘progressive’ GI fan and you’ll find regressive attitudes underneath.

DSDaisy · 31/10/2023 12:35

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 31/10/2023 12:12

WickedSerious · 30/10/2023 20:07

Stupid woman.

Nailed it.

Gettingbysomehow · 31/10/2023 12:09

I'm so sick of reading this gender crap. It's making kids sick and making them want to mutilate their perfectly healthy bodies.
I agree some people genuinely feel they have been born the wrong sex and want to have surgery and treatment for it, fair enough but most are just kids and they don't need this kind of confusion when they are growing up. It just adds to the already difficult time of puberty.
Certainly when I was growing up I wanted to be a boy, I hung out with boys and wasn't interested in dolls. Now I'm a perfectly normal if rather mannish woman and I'm just so glad I didn't have the pressure of worrying about gender dysphoria and treatments for it in my teens, I just needed time and space to find and accept the kind of woman I eventually turned out to be without any interference from anyone else.

PurpleChrayne · 31/10/2023 11:58

Anyone who goes by the words of Anne fuckin Fausto-Sterling should not be taken seriously. Absolute joker.

viques · 31/10/2023 11:54

Personally I will take the opinion of Professor Lord Robert Winston who has spent an entire , very distinguished medical career dealing with the outcome of the differences between women and men and whose stated view is that there are two sexes, female and male, over that of Phillippa Gregory no matter how many novels she has sold.

SidewaysOtter · 31/10/2023 11:45

Philippa Gregory thinks that two sexes, male and female, is a "myth"

Well Phillipa Gregory is a fucking idiot then, isn't she?

IncompleteSenten · 31/10/2023 11:01

Some people are just so full of shit.
Everyone's jumping on this ridiculous bandwagon right now.

When this fad fizzles out, you just know these people will backtrack and come out with all sorts of bollocks yet again.

Was being kind.
Afraid to speak out.
Didn't understand biology.
Etc etc

Grammarnut · 31/10/2023 10:58

Whoisthatatthedoor · 30/10/2023 23:57

Stupid, stupid woman.

I can’t read her stuff. One of her non-royal books of the Wideacre trilogy was really creepy and seems to relish in a plot about incest and another of hers Virgin Earth had quite a rapey salacious vibe involving a young female character which was equally repellent and that was it for me.

God knows what other weird shit is in her head if that’s what she chooses to write about, so I’m not wholly surprised that she can buy into such delusional weird bullshit as gender ideology.

I am afraid 'rapey and salacious' sells.

Grammarnut · 31/10/2023 10:54

RethinkingLife · 30/10/2023 21:50

"Very few men abuse and attack women unknown to them"

Astonishingly naive for a historian.

Rape is a common weapon of war and of terrorising a populace.

Most historians don't do that sort of history. Indeed, Marxist history (still current) is only interested in movements, economics and social change on the general scale. Rape in warfare doesn't make much of an entrance - which is probably why most people are still surprised rape happens in war. It's a weapon.

Grammarnut · 31/10/2023 10:11

FeckArseIndusty · 30/10/2023 18:11

Phillipa Gregory identifies as a historian but then writes fiction based purely on outrageous myths of the time.
I'm not surprised she is attracted to the 'no truth, no evidence, no facts' side of the debate.

She is historically inaccurate all the time.

Hiddendoor · 31/10/2023 10:11

PermanentTemporary · 30/10/2023 21:25

"Very few men abuse and attack women unknown to them"

Enough to affect our lives though...

"Rape is a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" Susan Brownmiller. Remember that one Philippa?

It is good news though- we only need to fear the men we know rather than all men, seeing as men are unlikely to attack women they don't know. Hoorah.

I'm infuriated by PG here. We can only reproduce as a species by having one of each biological sex getting involved. Or one of each gamete if you want to put the finer point on it. Does she not understand that gender is the adjective, but sex is the indisputable fact.

I read a Jenny Coogan book where she had a supporting character who was a transwoman. She found love and romance with a man who overlooked his sexual orientation (straight) because she was so lovely and gender is more important amiright. The joyful gaslighting was worrying.

Swipe left for the next trending thread