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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Philippa Gregory thinks that two sexes, male and female, is a "myth"

142 replies

Fenlandia · 30/10/2023 17:33

According to journalist Susan Dalgety's Substack (a good read), the author Philippa Gregory, who has sold gazillions of historical fiction novels, thinks there are more sexes than we first thought!

https://susandalgety.substack.com/p/philippa-gregory-may-be-a-bestselling

Here is the quote from Dalgety:

"Philippa Gregory, who prides herself as a feminist, does not believe in the “myth of two sexes.” She writes glowingly of a modern world where it is impossible to divide humans into two categories, male and female. “It is as fictional as a sorting hat – we are more diverse than and more varied, and more changeable over time, in a richer multiple word than the binary model…” And she points out that in the 1990s, American sexologist, Anne Fausto-Sterling, counted five sexes (male, female, merm, ferm and herm), while French scientist Eric Vilain suggested an “infinite number of biological genders.” It was at this point I dropped my coffee cup."

And yet again with the tedious trope that in order for people to be interesting and the world to be diverse, we must dispense with the fact of the sex binary by which every single human has been produced, ever.

Philippa Gregory may be a bestselling historical novelist, but facts still matter

Author of Normal Women believes that two sexes, male and female, is a "myth"

https://susandalgety.substack.com/p/philippa-gregory-may-be-a-bestselling

OP posts:
Abhannmor · 09/02/2024 09:04

Reallybadidea · 09/02/2024 05:18

*citation needed

It might be common if they actually existed. People with DSDs are all male or female - as they themselves are at pains to point out.

Kucinghitam · 09/02/2024 09:01

Oh, are we going to get a Righteous Education?

Deer Popcorn GIF
RebelliousCow · 09/02/2024 08:58

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:20

Whatever the term is, they do exist. And given there are so many transgender people around and I'm sure it's not a 'lifestyle' most would choose so many of the comments here are so ignorant and dismissive. I bet people were like this about gay people too about 50 years ago.

No they don't; not in the world of mammals they don't. If you are referring to DSD's - they are disorders of development of one sex or the other. Not an indication of a third sex.

ErrolTheDragon · 09/02/2024 08:50

Or to rephrase it in plain speak:

why do supposedly intellectually honest people keep deliberately confusing what is easy and simple to tell apart?

Oh, when people do that I don't suppose that they're being intellectually honest at all.

RedToothBrush · 09/02/2024 07:35

Sickoffamilydrama · 08/02/2024 21:25

I thought the explanation of how Women were supposed to have to orgasm to conceive in the 14th century so men were expected to know how to make them orgasm to women aren't even supposed to want sex by the 18th century interesting.

If this is true, might have to clear my search history medieval sex and orgasm might throw up some interesting ads 🤣

Edited

Kinda like to see the original sources on this, documenting what women of the time wanted, written by women not men.

RedToothBrush · 09/02/2024 07:33

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 05:06

Erm, there is such a think as hermaphrodites? Its actually quite common

And the award for The Truly Shit 'Gotcha' of The Day goes to ...

WickedSerious · 09/02/2024 07:27

ArabellaScott · 09/02/2024 06:39

Babe. Transgender people are not 'hermaphrodites'.

Well this is disappointing.

GordoStevensMustache · 09/02/2024 07:26

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:50

I see people are just trying to be stupid (or actually are). Nevermind. As you were.

Oh look, there's your arse, on a plate, being handed to you 🤣

Igneococcus · 09/02/2024 07:20

God, how I wish people would stop using phony science, that'd be the dream, but then again, my definition of phony science is probably quite different to their definition.

Waitwhat23 · 09/02/2024 07:16

Igneococcus · 09/02/2024 07:10

What do we think, will the rehead claim be made next or will clownfish be brought up? Make your bets now!

I'm putting £5 on a link to that atrocious Scientific American article.

Ooh, I think it's a toss up between the 'sex is a spectrum' Scientific American article or the excrement which is their 'stop using phony science' blog post.

Igneococcus · 09/02/2024 07:10

What do we think, will the rehead claim be made next or will clownfish be brought up? Make your bets now!

I'm putting £5 on a link to that atrocious Scientific American article.

Waitwhat23 · 09/02/2024 07:05

What do we think, will the rehead claim be made next or will clownfish be brought up? Make your bets now!

NecessaryScene · 09/02/2024 06:56

Two tips to help you in future arguments:

  1. Try to draw actual connections between your points, rather than throwing in random things with no connection - "hermaphrodites exist", "transgender is a thing","people were mean to gay people".
  2. Try to ensure all your points are true.
Igneococcus · 09/02/2024 06:53

I see people are just trying to be stupid (or actually are). Nevermind. As you were.

No, people are just insisting on scientifically correct terms. If you think we are wrong, you are the one who needs to provide the evidence for the claim that there is hermaphroditism in humans. Should be easy if you are right, maybe start with a Pubmed search.

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:50

I see people are just trying to be stupid (or actually are). Nevermind. As you were.

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 09/02/2024 06:46

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:42

Yep I know that 🤦🏼‍♀️

Why conflate the two if you know that?

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 09/02/2024 06:42

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:20

Whatever the term is, they do exist. And given there are so many transgender people around and I'm sure it's not a 'lifestyle' most would choose so many of the comments here are so ignorant and dismissive. I bet people were like this about gay people too about 50 years ago.

What you understand by 'hermaphrodite' doesn't exist in humans. People with DSDs are still either male or female and don't disprove the sex binary. And trans people don't have DSDs!

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:42

ArabellaScott · 09/02/2024 06:39

Babe. Transgender people are not 'hermaphrodites'.

Yep I know that 🤦🏼‍♀️

NecessaryScene · 09/02/2024 06:41

I bet people were like this about gay people too about 50 years ago.

I guess so - we also insisted they were male or female.

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 09/02/2024 06:41

Igneococcus · 09/02/2024 06:04

Hermaphrodite is an outdated and inaccurate term.

It isn't, it's not outdated or inaccurate in mollusks or tunicates, also in flowering plants, but it's extremely rare in vertebrates and unheard of in mammals and also in birds. I think people who bring the term up to claim there are more than two sexes have no idea what it means.

Ok, it's outdated and inaccurate in humans! Which is the context people are using it in this conversation

ArabellaScott · 09/02/2024 06:39

Justfinking · 09/02/2024 06:20

Whatever the term is, they do exist. And given there are so many transgender people around and I'm sure it's not a 'lifestyle' most would choose so many of the comments here are so ignorant and dismissive. I bet people were like this about gay people too about 50 years ago.

Babe. Transgender people are not 'hermaphrodites'.

Wherediditgoto · 09/02/2024 06:39

Well I won’t be reading anything by her anymore. How disappointing.

mynameisnotmichaelcaine · 09/02/2024 06:39

She frames two sexes as an Enlightenment myth and claims that it is responsible for the idea of separate spheres and the weaker sex. Absolutely unbelievable, given that about 200 pages have already been given over to women being ignored, undervalued, mistreated and murdered by men. How on earth did they know how to pick on before the enlightenment? It's a total mystery.

I enjoy PG's writing, but this makes her seem ridiculous.

BadSkiingMum · 09/02/2024 06:35

So the bit in ‘The Other Boleyn Girl’ where Mary Boleyn comes back home after church to find her newborn baby missing, because he has been taken to the countryside so she can resume her role as Henry VIII’s mistress has nothing to do with her position as a woman in Tudor society? Nor later that night when her sister Anne stuffs Mary’s vagina with a rag to stop her post-partum bleeding because the king has demanded that she come and have sex with him again? That has nothing to do with her female body of course.

A pity she couldn’t identify out of all that into one of these zany modern genders.

I don’t know anything about Phillipa Gregory’s personal life but I suspect that, like Mary Beard, we have a privileged woman giving things away on behalf of others.

Igneococcus · 09/02/2024 06:23

Hermaphroditism is defined by the ability of one individual organism to make both eggs and sperm. Are you telling me that all trans people are making both eggs and sperm? Are you quite sure about that?

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