Canada's outing of "pretendians" may be right where they are taking reserved places but has CBC gone too far in persuing Buffy Sainte-Marie

Please get back to discussing the thread, and not me personally.

(Thanks MNHQ for deleting the racially abusive posts.)

It's pretty fucking telling that minorities can't express an opinion on Mumsnet without a huge pile-on from people crying "anti-white racism."

This happens literally every single time anyone admits to being non-white. Immediately the thread is completely hijacked by multiple posters making personal attacks about that poster, forcing that person into the position of defending themselves, so that the thread stops being about racism (which is their goal, to disrupt and censor any debate or discussion about racism or race-related issues) and the whole thread becomes "Is Non-White Poster Awful Or Not." That's not just racist, it's also extremely rude to those who wish to discuss the actual topic.

It's a very well-worn tactic: try to derail by making any poster who disagrees with you the subject of the thread and try to encourage other posters to discuss the poster, rather than the actual subject.

This thread is about a white woman pretending to be an ethnic minority.

Accusing me of "ignoring" the fact that other minorities have done the same is very obviously bad faith tactics, since none of those other people are the subject of this particular thread. Why should I mention random unrelated people who have nothing to do with the subject of the thread? No one else here has mentioned those other people either, so why am I being singled out and targeted for not mentioning them?

"And if the First Nations Peoples are saying "stop, she is one of us" we should believe them."

Quote from upthread.

Which poster are you talking about?

These are kind of opposite things though. On the one hand, it's not ok to treat a group as a hive mind. On the other, it's not ok to point out they aren't a hive mind? The point, usually, of pointing out some disagree is to say it's not a hive mind issue, even among the relevant group of people.

Group identity requiring ideological unity is the natural outcome of identarian politics. Groups have to be a hive mind for that kind of thinking to work.

And I think it's pretty unfair to see it as a "white" thing. There are plenty of people in minority communities that want to use that kind of argument when it benefits them, glossing over disagreement in their own group, so they can push a certain viewpoint they want - and paint anyone who disagrees as a racist, homophobe, etc. Members of communities who step out of line are often subject to the worst abuse from members of their own community. Like the people who formed the GB Alliance in the UK, or black conservatives in the US.

If people would actually step up and make an argument, instead of just trying to claim their identity status means they are in the right, it would make political discussions a heck of a lot more fruitful.

"Minorities aren't a hive mind."

Neither are white people.

I'm non-white and something I notice a lot as a minority which really bothers me is that any time anyone is accused of racism, like clockwork, you get loads of white people online who have basically gone out and found one minority who doesn't mind whatever the thing is, then they parade that person around and use them as a justification for racism and a way to attack those who actually are bothered by it, and cast those calling out racism as the ones who are actually being racist.

The whole "well Actual Token Non-White Person doesn't mind which makes it Officially Not Racist" is a really well-known tactic.

I see it on MN and elsewhere all the time, "Well my black friend doesn't think it's racist so actually you're the ones being racist by virtue signalling about something Actual Black People don't mind." Clearly assuming the other poster must be white.

Or "I don't see race, so actually I'm the one who is not being racist, and anyone who calls me racist is the real racist because they're making everything about race."

This is actually happening with regards to my own minority group right now, there's a film out that contains a very well-known racist stereotype, and one minority person associated with the film defended it and said it didn't bother them, so now every comments section is full of white people howling "But Actual Minority said this stereotype was fine so actually the real racists are the ones critiquing it, because they're trying to speak on behalf of Actual Minorities, who think it's fine, everyone else is just bandwagon jumping in order to virtue signal." When the vast, vast majority of people from that actual minority group think it's racist as fuck, and the practically all the comments online decrying it are from people who are actually from that minority group. There's a lot of people online who seem to assume that everyone online is white and that minorities can't possibly log on to articulate their feelings.

Minorities aren't a hive mind. I'm uncomfortable with the implication that tribal people are cool with her lies just because her own close friends made one pretty nebulous statement in support of her, and that it's white people making a fuss in order to virtue signal. Clearly a lot of tribal people are furious at her, or deeply upset and feel betrayed, and maybe some do have more pragmatic feelings or just don't care. Because tribal people are people just like anyone else, they're unique individuals with their own individual opinions and perspectives.

She's very obviously a pathological liar and a grifter. She invented an entirely fake backstory for herself. It's honestly shocking that people are believing this tissue of lies, and the yet more and more lies that she's coming up with to cover for the original lies.

For her story to have any truth at all, literally everyone who knew or met her in her early years would need to be involved in a mass conspiracy against her, which also somehow involves a faked birth certificate, fake school records, etc. Because otherwise the facts just don't reconcile. And she's changed her story so many times, she can't even keep her lies straight.

It really disturbs me how white women get away with this shit and people make excuses and bend over backwards for them. Just white privilege in a nutshell.

Look at Rachel Dolezal. She lied as part of a money-making scam, and because she believed that black people were unfairly advantaged. When she was 23 she actually sued a university for "anti-white racism", claiming that programmes that exist to support black students was discrimination against her as a white person. So clearly until she was at least 23 she did consider herself to be a white person and did not think of herself as a black, or identify as black, or have confusion about her background. It's pretty telling that she only come up with the scam of pretending to be black after her money-grab "I am being discriminated against because I am white" lawsuit. Pretending to be black was just another way to scam money, IMO. She also faked having cancer. Yet people still defend her and bend over backwards to come up with an explanation other than "because she's a lying grifter out for money."

Thanks Arthurbella.
This an excellent article that covers so much more than I expected from the title. Its a great go-to for an overview.
One for the resources folder!

I won't hold my breath.

She doesn't need to make statements, a simple DNA test would clear it up.

It raises some interesting questions about the public though. About why people feel like they are so interested in someone billed as "an Indian girl" when her music was the same if she was Italian-English girl.

I see a lot of that with musicians now, they are all billing themselves, if they can, as an ethnicity or other group identification. Indigenous artist being a big one in North America, but also African-American (or Black) or Queer or whatever.

Why would they lie? Especially since there is every indication she is lying about all the facts that can be established? Things she said were simply false.

It would be completely bizarre to have a child, and then tell her that she was adopted and from a totally different ethnicity, while treating your other kids family normally. And when it would be so easy for said daughter to check. Yes, people are weird, but there is no evidence to support that apart from her ever-changing story.

That's the other thing, if her story was true, she could have likely found out a lot. But she didn't, and what's more over the years her story changed. She claimed to be from three totally separate First Nations groups, that aren't even close to each other.