Butches against transpohobia

Is it ok for lesbians to be proud of being exclusively same sex attracted, or should they keep it quiet so as not to rock the boat or offend males who identify as women?

This is really not difficult. I'm not sure why people are pretending this is hard to comprehend.

Do you think biological females should be permitted to only be open to dating other biological females, yes or no? In other words, do you think it's okay for women (of the female variety, not ones with penises) to be lesbians and solely date other women and exclude ALL males from their dating pool if they wish to?

Do you think it's okay for lesbians who want to have women-only meetings, without the presence of biological males (regardless of whether or not those males identify as women), to do so if they wish to, yes or no?

Do you think it's okay for women to be solely same-sex attracted, or would you suggest that's bigoted in some way?

I see. You are unable to answer. Thanks.

So when you read all you get are trans rights are human rights

This is not controversial

But when people ask for more specifics - what human rights in the uk are problematic for transgender people - they are not available- we have to educate ourselves

Suggests you either don't actually have anything or you know that trying to say a transgender bio male person has the right to compete in female sports might not win you many friends

Blimey. GC group-think response there. If you don't know, maybe have a quick Google and read some non-GC material about it. I am not here to educate you.

Which rights do you mean when you say 'trans rights'?

That's fair. In fact, I currently don't know a single lesbian who is against trans rights. and none of them have been 'surprised' by a penis on a date! That's another myth that is used as a tool to spread hate.

By impartial do you mean straight and gender conforming?

Eh?!

Yes, indeed.

By impartial do you mean straight and gender conforming?

I think, at a most basic level, it shows that lesbians like vulvas and not penises. And despite being attracted to women and not men, they still prefer manly vulvas to womanly penises.

So a quick skim since last night demonstrates:

total lack of reading comprehension, much straw manning despite people repeatedly explaining and in quite small words what they mean and think

constant misrepresentation of other people's views

much DARVO

much denial

much random identified as claims such as 'most people' and 'everyone but you' type stuff, never substantiated

A lot of extremist belief and a quite staggering disrespect and disregard for others, on top of alternative reality and happy delusion blocking anything that does not jive with this.

Whatever, frankly. It proves again: you cannot be reasonable or find compromise with those incapable of actually touching hands with any reality or facts other than the ones they want, and there is no point in trying to discuss other people's needs and feelings with those who shout a lot of buzzwords about inclusion and kindness but only mean them and their mates. And frankly would treat others in ways that the history books have horror stories about.

The conversation needs to be had with rational and impartial people in positions of power and influence, who still have the capacity for objectivity and equality of consideration. And a grip on reality.

Lesbians get to decide what their sexual or romantic boundaries are - no one else.

Yes, it's not for straight people or bisexuals to tell lesbians and gay men that being exclusively same sex attracted is wrong.

Genderism tells us that men who fancy women are allowed to decide they are lesbians.

You are so close to getting it. And yet, so far.

The point is that language needs to have meaning. There need to be words for different biological sexes and different sexualities which are defined according to objective criteria.

If some biological females who are exclusively sexually attracted to other biological females want to have a word for themselves, which only refers to them and does not include any biological males or any biological females who are attracted to biological males, they are entitled to do so. Until about five minutes ago, the word for that group of people was "lesbians".

All biological males and all biological females who are attracted to biological males - whether they are also attracted to biological females or not - should respect lesbians' right to have their own word by not using the word "lesbian" to refer to themselves and coming up with a different word to describe whatever it is they believe they are.

By using the word "lesbian" to describe themselves, they are failing to respect a boundary that lesbians believe should exist.

Self-identified "lesbians" who are either trans women or women who would consider dating trans women, and who say that everyone gets to decide how they define their sexuality are not trans inclusive lesbians. They are non-lesbians who have decided they wish to use the word "lesbian" to describe themselves.

That is precisely the point.

Lesbians are being told - very often by straight people - what their lesbianism has to mean. It's BS. That is straightforward policing of women's sexuality.

Lesbians get to decide what their sexual or romantic boundaries are - no one else.

Ha this is where they will be saying it is the lesbians who date trans men are the heterosexuals, rather than the trans women who are claiming to be lesbians.

It's just all so ridiculous.

What's especially ridiculous is no one on the GC side is objecting to anyone shagging anyone (despite the claims of the TRA) it's just that the word lesbian has a very specific meaning which does not include shagging a person of the opposite sex no matter how they identify.

Anyone can shag anyone but if a woman has sex with a trans woman she is having heterosexual sex.

The outcome is the same for everyone in this scenario except that homosexual women get to keep their words. But we can't be having that can we because some males might get hurty feelings!

It's surprising for gender believers.

It's like that Pink News article someone linked to earlier which describes it as "surprising" that some lesbians would consider dating trans men but not trans women, and some gay men would consider dating trans women but not trans men.

Is it really surprising though??