Butches against transpohobia

Sometimes it just sounds like role play/cos play - do the people who don’t care just think identifying as anything is a sacred right - don’t really care what that identity is - baby, cat, lesbian whatever - and they think it doesn’t matter cos they haven’t bothered to find out

get your own words

Oh, the irony.

No, the women you're arguing with are WAY less likely than genderists to be advocates of regressive pink and blue sex stereotypes. (People who actually understand feminism and the history of women's rights will know this, but it seems to be beyond some here. We don't assign personality traits to pink and blue boxes, for a start) And many are lesbians, not straight "queer" people who, it seems to me, get a bit icked out by the idea of women being same sex attracted and not at all open to dick.

I know who the more conservative thinkers are here, and it's not the non-genderists. Makes me laugh that transactivists are so narrow-minded and old-fashioned about "gender" (stereotypes) but seem to fondly imagine they're being the precise opposite.

Everyone has a sexuality though, which is based on someone’s sex being key to your ability to find them sexually attractive.

I am heterosexual. I am not attracted to all men, but I am only attracted to men. There is a whole bunch of things that have to come together for me to be attracted to a particular man, and that whole bunch only ever comes together with men. That’s what being heterosexual means.

I don’t need to inspect their genitals to know they are men. Millennia of evolution has equipped me, and every other human, to know this by looking at them fully clothed.

Your attempts to shame people as ‘obsessed’ with genitals is one of the most far fetched and ridiculous of the gender ideology argument.

We all know what sexuality means. It means you are not attracted to all people of that sex, you are not attracted to them just because of their sex, but you are only attracted to people of that sex.

I’m childless, would it be OK for me to go to mothers groups & say I identify as a mother so should be there?

or is it only the groups “women” and “lesbian” that have to accommodate men who identify as belonging?

Classic "I haven't a fucking clue" response 😂
Just as well none of us need educating...

Precisely.

Sure, it's great to be given the freedom to say yes IF you wish to. But where exactly is the freedom in not ever being permitted to say no?

Nope.

@ArabellaScott asked which trans rights you are referring to in your post. She is not asking ‘what are trans rights?’

If you’re suggesting we Google ‘which trans rights is @KG74 referring to in her MN post?’ I don’t think that will get any of us very far.

As you see I corrected myself later on @Catsanfan!

(Late night misreading)

So there's not really much living and letting live from the "trans inclusive", is there?

The second one, in 2022, had to be cancelled because police didn't want to deal with the homophobic protestors.

As were both Lesbian Strength marches in Leeds, for being lesbian only.

www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/lesbian-strength-march-through-leeds-16882234

Maybe we will get an answer. Likely it will be crickets though.

just a reminder that the lesbian project in London was protested loudly and intimidatingly here.

Also I won't call anyone a lesbian if they don't meet the criteria no matter how they identify - it seems insulting to other lesbians

You just need a lot of voices to be heard - as soon as you try to curate a group you won't be taken seriously by anyone excluded

It's not easy but it's only by talking and listening will progress be made

Anyone who Shuts down conversion with go educate yourself won't get a voice though - they won't talk

Also o think if lots of voices are heard the extremists can be more readily identified. We can't ever expect that everyone will be happy with any solutions - but once we can identify the extreme positions we also have a rational for knowing whose happiness is not possible to obtain

Does "identifying as" have any kind of sensible limits to you? Such as Donald Trump announcing he identifies as Mexican?

Indeed. I find this idea absurd.

If someone identifies as a lesbian, that is what I am going to call them

Does "identifying as" have any kind of sensible limits to you? Such as Donald Trump announcing he identifies as Mexican?

Oh, do we have confirmation that non-feminine butch lesbians are women or not yet?

How do you plan to ensure that?

For trans people not to be overrepresented you would probably need to have a group of at least 50 people, 25 of whom are female and only one of whom is trans. And how do you decide whether your one trans person is a trans woman or a trans man? Whether they believe that trans people should have access to single sex spaces and sports for the opposite sex or whether they believe in third spaces and sporting categories? Trans people aren't a hive mind either.

I guess there is a problem that one persons sane and reasonable is another persons extremist

So what you probably just need is a broad range of people

Perhaps with a test that no group is over represented

If someone identifies as a lesbian, that is what I am going to call them

That's nonsense though. 'Lesbian' has a specific meaning that doesn't include males. A male can't be a lesbian. Females attracted to males are bisexual or straight.

Are we to assume that you can't name a single right which trans people don't already have?

I have educated myself, by the way. Extensively. That is why I hold such strong views.

I assume she means "broadly sane and understands that the rights of all groups need to be taken into account".

Do you think it's okay for lesbians who want to have women-only meetings, without the presence of biological males (regardless of whether or not those males identify as women), to do so if they wish to, yes or no?

And as a reminder, just recently this was determined to be illegal in Tasmania. Does the people who wear shirts with “Butches against transphobia” agree with this ruling?

Got to laugh at that.

Last night I realised I'm so NON gender conforming (femininity anyone? ) that some might think I'm really a man!

I'm a 48 year old mother of two kids!