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Kew Gardens, yes, *Kew Gardens*, says plants have "gender" not "sex"

110 replies

MmePoppySeedDefage · 22/10/2023 18:54

I have been a member of Kew Gardens for a while. Every so often I get a magazine from them, and this unscientific bilge was in the latest edition. I've written and from the swift reply, obviously others have too. They mutter about fungus:

Thank you for your email. As part of Queer Nature, we explore how queer people find themselves in nature, and how a closer look at nature through a queer lens can challenge many pre-existing ideas about what is ‘natural’ and ‘unnatural’.

While we recognise that human sexual identities cannot be applied to nature, we want to celebrate the fact that, as in humans, there is huge diversity in the natural world. Many plants and fungi have characteristics that do not fit within traditional forms of categorisation. Some examples include:
• Avocado - is one example of many plants which is fertilised when its own pollen finds its way from the stamens into the ovule, meaning it can ‘self-pollinate’
• Ruizia Mauritiana - found in the Temperate House at Kew, this plant can change the flowers it produces based on temperature
• Some citrus and many other flowering plants produce seeds by apomixis, they reproduce without fertilisation and, in effect, are asexual.

• Liverworts – these can reproduce asexually by means of gemmae, which means a single cell, or a mass of cells, or a modified bud of tissue, that detaches from the parent and develops into a new individual
• Fungi - Fungi don’t have what we would refer to as biological sexes at all. In human terms, they are also the ultimate pansexuals, engaging in sexual reproduction with any compatible member of their own species.
• The Splitgill mushroom (Schizophyllum commune) has been found to have more than 23,000 mating types.

Kew Gardens, yes, *Kew Gardens*, says plants have "gender" not "sex"
OP posts:
RethinkingLife · 23/10/2023 11:25

Beowulfa · 23/10/2023 11:18

We know embarrassingly little about the world of fungi. But one thing is for sure- these organisms have fuck all to do with human sexuality.

Tsk, I'm expecting subclasses of fungi to be validated orientations/identities soon.

Beowulfa · 23/10/2023 11:18

We know embarrassingly little about the world of fungi. But one thing is for sure- these organisms have fuck all to do with human sexuality.

WoollyBat · 23/10/2023 11:05

The really stupid thing (or one of them) is that stuff just highlights how different plant/fungal sex or reproduction is from culturally defined “queerness” like being trans.

how do you know a plant is “bisexual” or a fungus “doesn't have a sex”? Because of how it literally, functionally reproduces. That is the only way you can tell. Not because it declares itself queer or adopts a stereotype associated with the opposite sex.

if any humans actually changed sex or had no sex or were both sexes at the same time, like some other things, then they would do it like other living things I.e. functionally. In fact humans are just pretending and the plants etc aren’t.

Ofcourseshecan · 23/10/2023 10:03

I love the idea of celebrating the huge diversity of human behaviour and imagination. But at a time when children are being led to believe that they can change sex, you have to be absolutely clear what is fact and what is fantasy.

qwertyuiopasdfgh · 23/10/2023 10:03

Userxyd · 23/10/2023 03:54

This is all so sinister. It's not about pseudo inclusivity it's the beginnings of rewriting science, nibbling away at the edges so that when anyone states biological facts at changing room intruders they have more ammunition to fight reality with.
It's utter bollocks trying to relate anything else to human/mammal biology. None of these plants change sex cos they want other plants to see them as another sex! It'll for scientific reasons probably survival based.
Even fungi need to find other "compatible" fungi.
We need a campaign for truth in public places- this is undermining reality and very dangerous.

Yes, makes you wonder who was forced to write this crap because someone with $$$$$$ said so.

Ofcourseshecan · 23/10/2023 10:00

Userxyd · 23/10/2023 03:54

This is all so sinister. It's not about pseudo inclusivity it's the beginnings of rewriting science, nibbling away at the edges so that when anyone states biological facts at changing room intruders they have more ammunition to fight reality with.
It's utter bollocks trying to relate anything else to human/mammal biology. None of these plants change sex cos they want other plants to see them as another sex! It'll for scientific reasons probably survival based.
Even fungi need to find other "compatible" fungi.
We need a campaign for truth in public places- this is undermining reality and very dangerous.

This is all so sinister. It's not about pseudo inclusivity it's the beginnings of rewriting science, nibbling away at the edges

Yes. Science is about reality. Scientists should be holding the line, not playing along with harmful fantasies.

Kucinghitam · 23/10/2023 09:44

There's nothing that The Right Side of History won't appropriate.

Abhannmor · 23/10/2023 08:00

RethinkingLife · 22/10/2023 19:19

Event last week.

Nature's Diversity

5x15 is delighted to announce a new events partnership with Rathbones, in collaboration with Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew.
Focussing on the twin crises of climate change and biodiversity loss, the series will address some of the most urgent questions of our time from new and unexpected angles.

Join us this evening for the first event in the new series: a celebration of Nature's Diversity, which explores how nature can teach us to challenge traditional expectations. From plants and fungi living outside orthodoxies, to the symbolic connections between plants and queerness through LGBTQ+ history, and the stories of writers and artists who have been drawn to nature, our expert panel of scientists and storytellers will illuminate how the natural world can inspire new ways of thinking.

Years ago I worked on a gardening project with Rathbones - I assume that is the Elfrida Rathbone Society. I was a team leader on a Community Programme or whatever they're called now. Senior management struck me as well meaning spoofers. Plus ca change.

However I did get a HND in Horticulture out of it. We learnt all about plants that self pollinate and not a gender identity in sight!

Plasmodesmata · 23/10/2023 07:51

I always thought it would be useful to photosynthesise.

FlippinFumin · 23/10/2023 07:49

I think these days this shit is where the money is. Look at the sponsors of the event, who are they? I bet they have ties to the TQ+. I will say again, theories belong in the lecture hall, not brought out in the world as reality. TQ+ are not plants or clown fish. They are mostly fetishistic men and girls with mental health problems. Neither of whom probably give a second thought to fungi.

IncomingTraffic · 23/10/2023 07:48

There simply does not need to be any link to human identity politics though.

Plants and fungi are interesting in their own right. There are ways to help people bring nature into their lives that aren’t based in some almost narcissistic inability to care about anything but your own self perception.

ApocalipstickNow · 23/10/2023 07:33

Are there no LGBT+ botanists, or naturalists? Or anyone else with a connection to nature in some way that would have made a more sensible (and also interesting) link to any of this?

merrymelodies · 23/10/2023 04:44

This thread made my day! 😂

SinnerBoy · 23/10/2023 04:37

One might point out that slugs are true hermaphrodites, or that aphids and some lizards can reproduce parthenogenetically. But those modes have nothing in common with human reproduction.

So why fungi and clownfish?

MargotBamborough · 23/10/2023 04:10

IncomingTraffic · 23/10/2023 03:35

it is like some sort of horrible joke that we find ourselves having to explain that humans are not plants or fungi.

it’s no more relevant to humans that fungi can reproduce in many different ways than the fact that rocks can withstand extremely high temperatures or pressures is. It doesn’t change the biological characteristics of human bodies.

It’s depressing that so many humans can’t be interested in the wonder and variety of the world without tying everything back to the concept of human identity.

The first rule of TQ+ is that everything is about the TQ+.

Even the sex lives of clownfish and fungi.

Userxyd · 23/10/2023 03:54

This is all so sinister. It's not about pseudo inclusivity it's the beginnings of rewriting science, nibbling away at the edges so that when anyone states biological facts at changing room intruders they have more ammunition to fight reality with.
It's utter bollocks trying to relate anything else to human/mammal biology. None of these plants change sex cos they want other plants to see them as another sex! It'll for scientific reasons probably survival based.
Even fungi need to find other "compatible" fungi.
We need a campaign for truth in public places- this is undermining reality and very dangerous.

IncomingTraffic · 23/10/2023 03:35

it is like some sort of horrible joke that we find ourselves having to explain that humans are not plants or fungi.

it’s no more relevant to humans that fungi can reproduce in many different ways than the fact that rocks can withstand extremely high temperatures or pressures is. It doesn’t change the biological characteristics of human bodies.

It’s depressing that so many humans can’t be interested in the wonder and variety of the world without tying everything back to the concept of human identity.

SinnerBoy · 23/10/2023 02:33

Dear oh dear oh dear! A bastion of scientific research and they come out with tripe like this? It's Lysenkoism bloody redux!

I hope they've got someone sane looking after the orchids and bromeliads.

HiddenLegoOuch · 23/10/2023 02:33

FrancescaContini · 22/10/2023 19:02

Queer Nature … how queer people find themselves in nature … JFC

Don’t they just go outside - like everyone else?

DarkDayforMN · 23/10/2023 01:29

DiscoBeat · 23/10/2023 01:25

I think some plants do change though? Pretty sure I've heard that before. Like some animals as well.

You should read the thread. It is of course true that plants do lots of things that humans don’t do, including change sex (I think you accidentally a word.)

MargotBamborough · 23/10/2023 01:28

DiscoBeat · 23/10/2023 01:25

I think some plants do change though? Pretty sure I've heard that before. Like some animals as well.

Not humans though.

Which is somewhat relevant if you are claiming that hermaphroditic plants have something to tell us about people who identify as queer.

DiscoBeat · 23/10/2023 01:25

I think some plants do change though? Pretty sure I've heard that before. Like some animals as well.

DarkDayforMN · 23/10/2023 01:22

we explore how queer people find themselves in nature

Isn’t it insulting to “queer people” to assume they are this self-obsessed and boring? Omg this fungus has 23,000 mating types it’s JUST LIKE ME - ok, some people sadly are that degree of narcissistic and insufferable, but wouldn’t it be nice to assume as a baseline that “queer people” have mastered the most basic adult life skill of paying attention to something outside of themselves?

BurbleBumleBleep · 23/10/2023 01:18

Hydrangeas change colour according to the acidity of soil. And yet no bearing at all on humans being various hues. Crazy huh.

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