DD is now a TERF

The “negative experience” openeing your eyes experience its pretty common across the board unfortunately. I can’t think of several people who were adamantly not feminists (even though they were in reality) until they were pregnant and unwell or had 2 toddlers at home and no access to income or retiring and were short of NI contributions. Intelligent educated politically aware women hadn’t realised they were standing on the shoulders of giants.

Re : being ‘kind’….it isn’t really kind to go along with the transitioning process though. If you saw a child about to step off the curb in front of a truck, you would knock them out of the way, even if it meant showing up their inability to cross the road safely . Nodding along as anyone takes even the first steps towards ruining their physiology or mutilating their body, is the same as just standing back from the roadside, to me.

Absolutely. Far too many primary schools have unthinkingly adopted all this nonsense and failed to engage any critical thinking about safeguarding, age inappropriateness, impartiality & the law. A few young activist teachers throwing around "bigot" & "transphobe" and the rest of the staff silenced.

All magnified by the repeated silence from the government & with Ofsted unforgivably having been Stonewall champions (until the grim reality of this was revealed) and they've now backed away (silently). But of course, they daren't challenge this in schools because it raises the question of how they got captured by this anti child safeguarding ideology in the 1st place and why they've been missing in action for so long while trans activists have run amok in schools.

At this point, even the most out of touch politician would know of the lack of transparency re gender teaching in schools, including these schemes of indoctrination like LBBTQ clubs for under-11s.

The very least Sunak could have done is compelled schools to publish their materials. Yes, it would have been a struggle, especially with TRA Edu Sec Keegan known to absolutely be obstructive here, but a worthy struggle. So many parents would have thanked him, and on a purely selfish political note, it would have put clear blue sky between him and Starmer, and likely Starmer would have quickly UTurned to support this policy.

But no, Sunak is happy going for the instant gratification of taking on the SNP over Self ID or soundbyting "a man is a man, a woman is a woman" etc, but to actually extend this as principled attitudes to stuff like opening up transparency in schools, he's either not interested, too scared of his TRA wing, or hasn't the heart for a fight...or worse still, has no principles here at all.

For me, the layers of cognitive dissonance on my feelings on politics and politicians is mounting. Am I really going to be obligated to vote for my local Tory MP, the former PM who was beaten by a lettuce, a GC for sure, representing a party that, yes, hasn't pushed for Self ID like Labour were planning to just 9 months ago, that has no principled policy on a trans conversion ban, and won't even give parents the benefit of gender teaching transparency. Just because they're not Labour?

How can such an area of public life be so badly served by our politicians, from both parties?

It's really depressing that switched on parents have to start discussing these issues with their children much earlier than they might have wished to, and earlier than their children might be developmentally ready for, if they want to avoid schools getting in there first with a load of damaging nonsense about gender identity and being kind.

Ten year olds shouldn't need to think about this stuff. They should just be focusing on being ten years old.

Exactly, I'm really shocked by it.

The issue is the school running an LGB etc allies club. It's a form of social grooming - putting children in a position where they can never establish boundaries, stand up for their rights to single sex spaces when undressing, sport etc because they've signed up before they are emotionally / intellectually able to understand adult sexuality.
Why does a primary school have any club focused around sexuality? That's what parents need to challenge. Schools that breach their legal duty to be politically impartial and who dabble in age inappropriate issues relating to sexuality need challenging,

She's 10, that is not an age appropriate group, even if she was full on TERF.

My teenage daughter is a total TERF and has been to feminist events with me in the past. She really appreciates the wisdom and experience of my older, often lesbian, feminist friends. Younger daughter not long started year 7 and has no patience for the school’s genderwoo or for the male teachers who lecture them about skirt length and ‘giving boys the wrong idea’🙄

It helps that their brother has an enviable head of curls down to his bum and they have no truck with gendered stereotypes. Plus we live in farming country in the north, where any such utterances of “Mum I think I’m trans” would be met with a snort of derision and a “Don’t be so bloody ridiculous, you can’t change sex.”

I think there’s a lot to be said for taking the piss and refusing to indulge this nonsense. Also, given it is the teachers pushing the ideology in schools, surely the kids with even the slightest hint of mild, healthy rebelliousness won’t have any truck with it?

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening

I don't want to alienate and anger her at this stage. I'm just trying to drop hints and inform her simply about some of the issues.

excellent! I’ve just started talking to my 11yo DD about it, so I can get in ahead of whatever they’re going to be taught at school.

An LBGTQ blah blah club for 10yr olds?
All the nope, I'd be putting a stop to that immediately.

My DS 21 is at uni and thinks gender woo is a load of rubbish and my DD 14 and all of her friends think it's stupid and for the weird kids.

I think what I mean is perfectly encapsulated by opposition to the trans conversion ban. However you phrase it to start, many people will just see you as a bigot, and I don't even mean TRAs. You can feel really beleaguered being called uncaring.

But once you break thru the illogic of it all, and people "get" it, your attitude is justified.

There are so many things in the world that need energy and attention and solutions. One of the biggest developing hates I have is how so much time and wasted emotions have been expended on likely the biggest own goal the West has ever scored.

Sadly, in the experiences of one of my DD and her friends, it was only when they felt threatened or actually assaulted in so called "safe spaces" that they caught on to what me and their mothers were saying.

DD's best friend had a man attempt to access her in a changing room when swimming, they were both very much "trans women are women" which changed when she saw a man with an erection, in a womans swimming costume, trying to get to her.

Its horrible that it will take these sort of experiences for them to realise.

@TrishTrix
”I have a senior role at work but recently experienced everyone ignoring a point I made , only to have the same point championed when made by a man. Fortunately the committee chair is an ally and reminded everyone that I'd just said the same thing. Bravo to him. Grr to the rest of the fuckers.”

I read that this is classic. I hope it doesn’t often happen to you at work.
Hurray for the committee chair, though! ❤️

My daughter is ten and knows far more than I'd like her to, at her age. She's completely TWAW, not least because she has a "trans girl" friend. I've tried explaining unfairness in sport, as an example, but she just goes off that it's so unfair that Polly won't be allowed to play with the girls next year.

It's mixed sex at the moment.

She's joined the LGBTQ allies club and insists that transphobia is far worse than racism, despite Polly being popular and never having been bullied. My daughter, on the other hand, has been on the receiving end of several pieces of racist bullying.

I can only be patient, I'm not willing to discuss sex offenders with her just yet.

I absolutely agree, and I don't, even though it's my daughter.
It's far too important.

The trick is to never feel guilty or bad or doubtful about your opinion and attitude. Not an iota. Not for a moment.

I've not spoken to my closest friend since the whole Scotland thing. His mum can't speak to him either. It's sad as he would have been all over this as a teen I think very vulnerable but can't see it. He thinks I'm being mean to the poor most marginalised trans. He's 40ish. Gay, lt relationship, always loved sex. Has been known to dress as a woman at parties, wouldn't deny the personal 3 letter bit of that was part of it.
I think is la la la ING rather than wilfully blind to the issues of young people and Prisons etc but it's v hard.

My social circle has had to agree not to talk about these issues.

My sister and I have had a few really ugly arguments as I won't "be kind" especially around women in sport. She genuinely believes TWAW. She also didn't do biology after age 13. I'm a doctor and just can't get over the fact that she can't see that you can't change your bloody chromosomes.

Hey ho.

Another very close friend is gay. All signed up to Stonewall, EDI committee for his professional body etc. and we've argued so many times about pronouns etc. We now just ignore the issue as me shouting angrily that his privileged liberal middle class dictates are part of the problem. And that he will never understand the subtle sexism that women experience.

I have a senior role at work but recently experienced everyone ignoring a point I made , only to have the same point championed when made by a man. Fortunately the committee chair is an ally and reminded everyone that I'd just said the same thing. Bravo to him. Grr to the rest of the fuckers.

A good friend of mine, gay, has a niece, high functioning autistic, ADHD, self harming, who is now IDing FTM as his "nephew". Indeed, male pronouns are in use, and no-one objects, all keeping their heads down. All the family accept the new ID. My friend has always been a biological determinist, his words are "what's between your legs determines who you are, how you'll act, full stop".

But I've detected a change in him, he's less likely to be this adamant, much less scathing on "misled" trans as he would have termed it in the past. Now all that matters is that the new "nephew" is not pushing for meds, binders, mastectomies as was the case before.

And actually, no-one in the family talks about it. As I put the pov that all here would expect me to put, it was evident he didn't want to talk about it. That's fine, it's not my family, and I'm not insensitive.

What was disturbing was his tacit acceptance. He related no conceptual issues he was having. No more chat on you follow your dick as a man. Now it's all damage limitation and language obscurantism to accommodate. And even worse, his move to pretty much say it was a social evolution like any, which of course puts me all on the back foot. Because I won't argue with him. Interestingly, he ends the chat upbeat. I'm the one sad as I put the phone down.

When I pointed out that opinion on social change was easy as a man, even a gay man, he got that. When I pointed out that his "nephew" walking into my toilet or shower or any other previously proudly delineated situation would mean jack shit to me, but had this been a nephew transing to "niece" and accessing those spaces for women, there would be chaos, he kinda got it.

My main takeaway. Even the brashest confident in reality people can be so easily cowed by this. And even as a gay man, he hasn't worked out how this can't work for women. And why there's a whole part of our lives as friends we can now never discuss (his "niece" and his need to double down there, and my GC views, in relation to women's rights and free speech).

The world has really died quite a lot because of this.

I'm really sorry to hear your daughter had negative experiences 😔 is there any way you or she could speak up about them? Real practical evidence of the harm to women, young and old, is always welcome.

My 15 year old nephew is gay, so I was a bit worried he’d get caught up in all the genderwoo, but my sister says he’s very secure in his sex and sexuality, and although he had a MTF trans friend, s/he went to a different school after socially transitioning so that nobody would know s/he was a girl - they hardly ever see/speak to each other these days, and my nephew finds it all a bit strange and silly. Phew!

My niece (29) is a feminist but works in a university and is steeped in gender ideology. I appreciate the workplace pressure she must be under to #KeepQuietAndPlayAlong and am sure she’ll be easily convertible once out of that environment. She was appalled when I told her that rape victims had to refer to being raped “with her penis” in court.

My Dad’s now a TERF, as is my sister. Little by little, bit by bit, and nobody changes their mind the other way once they’ve seen the light.