Page 4 | My 13 year old says she is trans. How do I deal with this?

ProfessorInkling · 2023-10-21T09:01:11+00:00

It's been a slow burn for the last 18 months or so, since puberty really took off. I don't know where to even begin to try and explain her earlier years and how we got here because she used to be interested in my views of the world, as kids tend to be of course. She's always been such a girls girl - not stereotypically girly in any way but in touch with her identity as female, looking for and to female role models BECAUSE of their sex, Mary Anning, Rosa Parks, flipping Artemis Athena Cleopatra, and on and on... NOW it's all 'I feel like a boy' and 'top surgery will be everything' 'why can't you use he/him pronouns for me'.... How do I deal with this? So far I have tried listening, reasoning, and reassuring her that while she is free to express herself in any way she likes (boys shoes, clothes, short hair at the moment) I cannot deny her biological reality blah blah blah... but am I going to lose her this way? If it's a phase I can do nothing of course but every day she seems further from me and more entranced with the idea that she can 'become' a boy. No diagnosis but have always wondered ASD/ADHD.

StephanieSuperpowers · 21/10/2023 11:29

For what it's worth, I don't think the advice to look outside yourself now and again is bad or wrong. The amount of time kids spend obsessing about the exact contours of their personal feelings and identity is concerning.

MrsSkylerWhite · 21/10/2023 11:28

Gillypie23 · Today 10:43
**
I think you should support her. Do some research how to support her, going forward if she wants to transition. Don't inflict your opinions. You could push her away if you are against.

This. I firmly believe that a woman can never become a man and vice versa. No way though would I allow my opinion to get in the way of my relationships with my kids.

Ndd135632 · 21/10/2023 11:25

WitchyFingers · 21/10/2023 11:03

Yes my nieces and nephews (all teenagers under 16) live in my home town and just roll their eyes if the subject of trans comes up. They couldn't give a shit. I don't know if that's a northern thing or a " trans is soooo last year thing". Either way, it's refreshing!

Show quote history

I do think it is going out of fashion now. Will be replaced with the next body rejection thing. Just so sad because these fads always seem to affect girls more than boys (anorexia and this gender rubbish) when they should be focussing on their education, learning about the world and how they are going to thrive. I am so over it now. It is not kind. Far from it.

WitchyFingers · 21/10/2023 11:24

LunaandLily · 21/10/2023 11:22

Creepy that you’re here. But men do love to invade female spaces so…

Show quote history

Stop trying to police who can and can't post @LunaandLily , that's creepy.

LunaandLily · 21/10/2023 11:22

RealityFan · 21/10/2023 11:01

I'll let the OT tell me to bugger off.

Show quote history

Creepy that you’re here. But men do love to invade female spaces so…

lady69 · 21/10/2023 11:17

It’s a social contagion. Limit her access to the internet for that reason. She will be getting a LOT of this from on there and being subtly groomed by those who have an interest in pushing her be trans and validating her. That’s the nature of social contagion. Talk her school too. Find out what they have be teaching. Fined out about her friendship group. Is it just her or others? Again, social contagion can never be underestimated with all this trans stuff. Kids just want to feel accepted and trendy. Trans is tha new goth and emo. Only neither of those end up with surgery and taking irreversable medication. Tread lightly but firmly. You are in charge. Not her.

popebishop · 21/10/2023 11:14

Would it be worth showing her the posts from the AMA thread where the TW agreed that to believe they weren't a man depended on them believing there were essentially two types of personality ("male mind" and "female mind") which correspond to the two sexes except for trans people? Etc...

See if she thinks it's a reasonable thing to believe, or a bunch of awful stereotypes.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4920152-hello-im-a-tra-ask-me-anything?reply=130072961

Page 38 | Hello, I'm a TRA - ask me anything | Mumsnet

Good evening, I'm a transgender rights advocate. I say "advocate" rather than "activist" because I believe in constructive debate and consensus bui...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4920152-hello-im-a-tra-ask-me-anything?reply=130072961

Sunnava · 21/10/2023 11:12

Gillypie23 · 21/10/2023 10:43

I think you should support her. Do some research how to support her, going forward if she wants to transition. Don't inflict your opinions. You could push her away if you are against.

Premature menopause and dementia, osteoporosis in one’s 20s, increased risks of heart disease and cancer, and likely sterility, alongside avoiding teaching the life skills of critical thinking and falling prey to misogynist and homophobic cultural brainwashing ——— is not supporting a child and it never will be.

RealityFan · 21/10/2023 11:06

medianewbie · 21/10/2023 11:02

Perhaps? But I thought it was good sound advice. My ASD Dd has been hovering around this for a year now. I'm in Scotland, where its batshit crazy, & it's a scary place to be.

Show quote history

Thanks, I'm contributing simply to offer my support, and heartfelt suggestions.

Lottapianos · 21/10/2023 11:05

'The confidence of a non-parent male to come on here “as a man, as a non-parent” and offer advice! You couldn’t make it up.'

That's completely unfair. His advice was perfectly reasonable and he wasn't being arrogant about it. I'm a woman, but I'm not a parent, I still gave the OP advice and I stand by it.

WitchyFingers · 21/10/2023 11:03

inamarina · 21/10/2023 10:42

I honestly do wonder if there's a bit of a class divide when it comes to the trans stuff.

I’ve been wondering that too. The school my kids go to is in a predominantly working class area and trans ideology doesn’t seem to be much of an issue at all.

Show quote history

Yes my nieces and nephews (all teenagers under 16) live in my home town and just roll their eyes if the subject of trans comes up. They couldn't give a shit. I don't know if that's a northern thing or a " trans is soooo last year thing". Either way, it's refreshing!

medianewbie · 21/10/2023 11:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Perhaps? But I thought it was good sound advice. My ASD Dd has been hovering around this for a year now. I'm in Scotland, where its batshit crazy, & it's a scary place to be.

RealityFan · 21/10/2023 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I'll let the OT tell me to bugger off.

RealityFan · 21/10/2023 10:59

ProfessorInkling · 21/10/2023 10:51

Really appreciating the responses and will respond in more detail when I can but in brief:

She knows my opinions and always has done - she used to agree with them - I have worked in sex-based charities since my kids were tiny and always explained - in an age-appropriate way - what my work involves and the context within society (again, keeping it appropriate) - I have worked with DV, FGM, county lines victims. There has been fundraising and volunteering along the way and presented to the kids, broadly, as working to help women and children who need support, etc.

I don't indulge any ideas about changing sex, my DD came with me to tie ribbons in support of Maya Forstater, Marion Millar, Milli Hill, JKR - we used to write labels about no one being born in the wrong body and tie them on road signs and lamp posts. We'd buy stickers from Posie Parker's site and put them up together.

then she started secondary school and met the now-best friend. Now 'feelings' matter more than biology and it is all about respect and 'being kind' and she thinks TWAW and would never use that to enter women's spaces, and so on and so on.

But my fear now is less that this will last, and more that the alienation will - that she will detach from her stupid outdated mother and find her echo chamber to live in.

We rowed yesterday, I threw this weeks copy of The Week Junior in her direction and said she should look in the mirror less and widen her perspective, kids in Gaza, etc etc - not my finest moment. But it's so naval-gazey and I hate that. So insular, and frankly boring - your body is your body, deal with it. Told her she is so privileged, can walk and run and get to school independently and take part in lessons, activities, engage in clubs and friendships, what a lot she really has, so she doesn't like her growing breasts? Big deal, first world problem. Then I showed her my self-harm scars from my teenage years and said I know what it's like to hate your body but those feelings aren't forever.

I am just trying to connect with her.

You are a great mum, don't lose sight of that ever. I know you might be doubting that right now. And now you have two fears...she jumps all in...or even if she doesn't, your relationship is never the same again.

I really feel for you.

LunaandLily · 21/10/2023 10:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WaverleyOwl · 21/10/2023 10:55

Here are some good resources from therapists Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad:

Their YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod/videos

The book that they've just written for parents just like you: https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Kids-Say-Theyre-Trans-ebook/dp/B0C5Q276C2

Before you continue to YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/@widerlenspod/videos

Original poster

ProfessorInkling · 21/10/2023 10:51

Really appreciating the responses and will respond in more detail when I can but in brief:

She knows my opinions and always has done - she used to agree with them - I have worked in sex-based charities since my kids were tiny and always explained - in an age-appropriate way - what my work involves and the context within society (again, keeping it appropriate) - I have worked with DV, FGM, county lines victims. There has been fundraising and volunteering along the way and presented to the kids, broadly, as working to help women and children who need support, etc.

I don't indulge any ideas about changing sex, my DD came with me to tie ribbons in support of Maya Forstater, Marion Millar, Milli Hill, JKR - we used to write labels about no one being born in the wrong body and tie them on road signs and lamp posts. We'd buy stickers from Posie Parker's site and put them up together.

then she started secondary school and met the now-best friend. Now 'feelings' matter more than biology and it is all about respect and 'being kind' and she thinks TWAW and would never use that to enter women's spaces, and so on and so on.

But my fear now is less that this will last, and more that the alienation will - that she will detach from her stupid outdated mother and find her echo chamber to live in.

We rowed yesterday, I threw this weeks copy of The Week Junior in her direction and said she should look in the mirror less and widen her perspective, kids in Gaza, etc etc - not my finest moment. But it's so naval-gazey and I hate that. So insular, and frankly boring - your body is your body, deal with it. Told her she is so privileged, can walk and run and get to school independently and take part in lessons, activities, engage in clubs and friendships, what a lot she really has, so she doesn't like her growing breasts? Big deal, first world problem. Then I showed her my self-harm scars from my teenage years and said I know what it's like to hate your body but those feelings aren't forever.

I am just trying to connect with her.

OP posts:

BabyStopCryin · 21/10/2023 10:51

As my mum used to say when I was whinging about having to wear a brace, not being beautiful, not having a ‘cool’ name, etc - “tough titty, get on with it”

Lottapianos · 21/10/2023 10:49

'I would just shut any talk of "maybe I'm a boy" immediately with " well you're not so deal with it"'

I think this would be my approach too, with some added empathising about how it's perfectly normal to question who you are when you're going through puberty. As you say, experimenting with clothes, hairstyle etc, absolutely fine but you need to hold the line on biological reality. Absolutely no question of changing names or pronouns or talking about 'top surgery' as a possibility.

I can't believe how indulgent some parents are on this issue. That said, I really do feel for you OP, it must be very scary to hear your child talk like this, knowing how much affirmation is out there

BabyStopCryin · 21/10/2023 10:49

Are Magdalene Burns videos too sweary?

When did young women stop being angry about being treated like second class citizens/sex objects and start deciding that apeing men is the answer?

MyEyesMyThighs · 21/10/2023 10:48

I think you give it the least amount of oxygen possible and keep reiterating that her gender feelings are the least interesting thing about her and quite boring really.

I would look at an ASD diagnosis, but don't let her think the two are related. Teens would love the "I said i was trans and my mum thinks that means I must be autistic..." sympathy. Keep the issues separate.

Phonedown · 21/10/2023 10:47

I read an account of a woman who went along with the pronouns in a kind of "yes yes dear whatever you say" kind of way, rented a cabin in the middle of nowhere and took her child out of school for a few months, spent the time living off grid, hiking, talking, making things. All the time using their preferred pronouns etc. A few weeks in the child told them they weren't so sure anymore. At the point the woman wrote the post on twitter her child had been back to using their old pronouns and name for months. It's not an option for most people to walk away from everyday life like that but it does make you think about how outside influences are affecting children.

Gillypie23 · 21/10/2023 10:43

I think you should support her. Do some research how to support her, going forward if she wants to transition. Don't inflict your opinions. You could push her away if you are against.

inamarina · 21/10/2023 10:42

WitchyFingers · 21/10/2023 10:17

Personally I wouldn't indulge her. My kids know my opinion on the trans issue and seem to be fine with it.

It depends on your parenting style. I can't be doing with any woo shit (religious beliefs, trans etc) and so am quite no-nonsense. I would just shut any talk of "maybe I'm a boy" immediately with " well you're not so deal with it". I get that this isn't the way other people may parent 😆but it works for us.

I honestly do wonder if there's a bit of a class divide when it comes to the trans stuff. I'm working class, my kids are I suppose middle class (im northern, they're southern, they grew up with more.moneybthan i did) it would never enter my head to indulge this nonsense but a lot of my friends are ( how to put this politely) middle class yummy mummys who never set boundaries. I can see them going along with this shit just for an easy life tbh.

I think the fact you're wondering if she has adhd/asd is the real issue here. Maybe see if you can get a diagnosis for her so you can help her manage the world through that lense.

I honestly do wonder if there's a bit of a class divide when it comes to the trans stuff.

I’ve been wondering that too. The school my kids go to is in a predominantly working class area and trans ideology doesn’t seem to be much of an issue at all.

WitchyFingers · 21/10/2023 10:40

Also we monitor their Internet usage so if we saw them accessing a website that advocates for harming children, we'd know about it and block it immediately.