JKRowling. Prepared to go to prison for women's rights.

Petting zoos apparently.

so when I catch DH and DSs cuddling the cats or fussing the dog they are trying to come out to me as trans?

Not forgetting that women in prison are especially vulnerable and more likely to have been the victim of sexual abuse. This will be a significant minority if not majority of all female prisoners.

Thus the emotional needs of women in prison may well be to away from males due to trauma.

And thus the emotional needs of transwomen, no matter how similar they might be to women, will always remain different and incompatible and in direct conflict.

Because women are women. And transwomen are still men.

You can not change this.

You can not say
The question is how to meet these, and ensure their safety and dignity, without putting other women at risk by admitting them to female prisons.

Because it misses one very fundamental point and AlphaTransWoman highlights it well.

AlphaTransWoman talks about meeting the safety and dignity of transwomen, and only mentions 'the risk' to women. AlphaTransWomen doesn't mention the emotional needs of the women. And AlphaTransWomen remains silent on the dignity of women.

Its like the emotional needs and dignity of women don't exist. They are invisible. Only the emotional needs and dignity of transwomen are mentioned.

And THAT is the problem in a nutshell.

Transwomen need specialist services for Transwomen. Not to share them with women.

Petting zoos apparently.

I fail to see why transwomen require more special provision than vulnerable male prisoners such as those with learning disabilities. After all, trans campaigners say it's not a mental illness and associate it with joy, euphoria and even godlike status. Equal treatment should be a given.

And if we are talking about meeting people's needs in prison I think we need to make sure we're meeting their physical needs before we worry about their emotional needs.

Such as:

• the physical needs of Zahid Mubarek not to be locked in a cell with a dangerous white supremacist who beat him to death with a chair leg hours before he was due to be released from a 3 month sentence

• the physical needs of Cheryle Kempton not to be forced to share space with a violent male rapist known as "Karen White" who sexually assaulted her in that space

• the physical needs of the pregnant 18 year old to have someone answer the fucking emergency call when she was in labour so that she didn't give birth alone in her cell, sever the umbilical cord with her teeth and then witness her baby die

Let's sort those needs out before we worry about prisoners' emotional needs, trans or otherwise.

If you are particularly worried about your emotional needs not being met in a prison for members of your own sex then not committing crimes is always an option.

It is really quite odd that the idea of choice or preference is invoked in any discussion about prison placements.

Being sent to prison is being deprived of your liberty by the state. It’s not getting a choice in your accommodation. We have male and female prisons (or sections within them). You get put in one according to your sex/security considerations/space considerations. What you want or what would make you feel less sad just isn’t part of the process.

Except somehow we’re all supposed to be kind and let men who say they are women choose. 🙄

To be fair… there is probably a big overlap in emotional needs between men and women. But that’s because we are all human.

In any case, decisions about single sex provision or people’s right to perceive reality are not about the ‘emotional
needs’ of anyone. The concept of transwomen’s ‘emotional needs’ is not relevant to discussion about prison placements.

What would be the point of building a special prison for gender critical feminists?

I'm fairly sure the number of female prisoners who want to be incarcerated with male prisoners is zero, whether they identify as gender critical feminists or not.

Maybe we could just have prisons for women who don't want to be incarcerated with biological males, even those who have girly feelings.

Can you be more specific please?

What emotional needs do they have which are the same as those of women and different from those of men?

@AlphaTransWoman do you think 'emotions' make a man a woman? Do you not think men have emotional needs? Could you outline briefly for us what the differences are between mens and womens emotional needs? I have always assumed that all humans have similar emotional needs but it appears that I am mistaken and that there are unique women's emotional needs that I, a woman have failed to notice.
Nb lipstick is not an 'emotional need', neither are high heels.

A suspended sentence gets turned into an actual custodial sentence if you break any conditions or commit the offence - or in this case the "offence" - again.

Shouldn't be too difficult. In fact, it could well be inadvertent.

If everyone’s as physically buggered as me, it’ll need its own age-related massive hospital wing and a bank of wheelchairs, a decent gynae ward, a sensory impairment service, skin cancer unit, and dietician.

And I’d insist on the jail time, not a suspended sentence, so I can set up my own advice service in the library and win over the top dog with my usefulness.

They'll have to build more prisons. I wonder if they'll build one just for gender critical feminists. They could call it azkaban. The library would be amazing Dworkin everywhere!

No they don't, because there are not "other women".
There are only women, of which trans women are not part.
There are not two different kinds of women, only those who ARE women.

They have similar emotional needs to some other kinds of men.
But not women.

Lol tax payer not taxi. Although if anyone fancies paying my taxi fare to prison i will allow it

Well, I just wrote something on X
Twitter that will probably send me into the nearest slammer. Let's all do it and see if the taxi payer can afford it?

Transwomen are not “other women”.
Transwomen are transwomen, biologically and psychologically male.
Any emotional needs transwomen may have will be related to their dysphoria or be derived from their maleness.
That has nothing to do with women.

Excellent rhetorical question.

This is not a problem for women to solve. Women are not here to provide emotional support for men who believe they are women.

I take your point, and again it applies to unreasonable female demands too, though the demands of men are far more damaging. I was using “needs” loosely, but the point I was trying to make was that transmen also think they have a need for their identity as “men” to be recognised, and they think this should be no skin off anyone else’s nose. But denying reality by using wrong sex pronouns is not cost free, especially if the relationship with the transgender person is close.

What sort of emotional needs would a transwoman have, that a man doesn't, but a woman does?

Trans women may have similar emotional needs to other women even though they are physically male. The question is how to meet these, and ensure their safety and dignity, without putting other women at risk by admitting them to female prisons.

I'd add that all male needs and/or wants regarding prison care and conditions can be met without using the female estate or female prisoners as a resource.

There is no male 'right' to use female bodies. Privacy, dignity, safety, trans specific provision, all of it can be provided outside of the female estate without the use of female prisoners.

@Helleofabore It all stems from 'just be kind' while suspending reality to accommodate a male person's needs. Fuck that.

@Transparent2 "It all stems from 'just be kind' while suspending reality to accommodate a female person's needs" also applies.

What male needs go unmet by refusing to allow a male into a female-only space, prison, sports team, or service? None because hurty gender feelz aren't needs. Needs include physical safety, freedom from being forcibly put at risk of pregnancy through rape, freedom from harassment, and the ability to access a male-free therapeutic space in the aftermath of male violence. Validation of gender identity is not a need. @Helleofabore please try to resist using TRA "needs" language when referring to unreasonable male demands.

Pattern-spotting here: That prisoner was Black. Even if she'd been transferred to hospital, she was four times more likely to die in childbirth than her white counterparts.

What problem does it create when it comes to trans women?