Janice Turner puts the boot into @glinner

NAE NEED TO BRING PEDESTALS INTAE IT

This looks petty, and I'm usually always a fan of Turner's pieces. It really looks like a "well, his approach is a bit, well, coarse, and frankly unbecoming", some petty points scoring because of blocking and lack of name checks, and a re-run of the "this isn't the pure approach to gender criticism that is the only correct one" peddled by Dr. Jane Clare Jones against KJK.

I'd go so far as to call her words spiteful.

I'm always glad to hear alternative perspectives within GC circles. We don't have to agree all the time, and I don't really believe in having anyone on a pedestal.

It will be a marker of GC success if in 10 years Glinner is writing snarky articles about where all the Johnny come Latelys were when he was alone in the trenches

I LOOK FORWARD TO THE DAY EVRYONE FINALLY WISES UP AND AGREES WI ME

Agree absolutely why is Glinner the only UK man I can immediately name on this? When I can reel off a while load of excellent women’s names?
Gratitude to an individual man must be particularly iritating to the multitude of brave individual women enduring in some cases possibly even worse flak than Linehan gets.

but it’s not a zero sum game and he IS the only man. He symbolises what I wish other men would stand up for instead of leaving women to get all the rape and death threats.

So yes i’m grateful for Glinner for getting involved because men can and should and they are very much not getting involved, in the main, and we will need more men to do it to gain the consensus that will win this. That’s just the nature of any influencing campaign that needs broad support. They need a diversity of people’s opinions to reach and convince a diversity of people.

I don't agree with all Graham Linehan says or writes but I have admired his dedication and the fact that he was one of those who helped bring light when all was dark. I have loved his comedic stuff over the years and I bought his book to acknowledge that he had lost much. I don't think he, or Parker are great for GC debate, but every cause has its outliers and I just accept that they sometimes have more extreme views than I do. I found Janice Turners article interesting. It was she who got me to take a good look at what was going on. I am eternally grateful to her.

I wish all men had reacted as Glinner did to the fact kids are having unnecessary surgeries that will destroy their health and sexuality, women are being locked up with rapists and lesbians denied any spaces of their own.

Quite

Well I love Janice Turner’s writing and trust her instincts on GC issues but that isn’t a book review it’s a review of a bad personal relationship.

Yes, I agree.

Spot on @Slothtoes there is no one way to fight this, it will take lots of different ways. TRA didn’t use only one tactic and neither should we

She mentions it in her razor job on his personal failings iirc. Turner obviously resents his online following too. A strange piece that reads like the continuation of an old feud.

I wish all men had reacted as Glinner did to the fact kids are having unnecessary surgeries that will destroy their health and sexuality, women are being locked up with rapists and lesbians denied any spaces of their own. I do really admire the calm fortitude of women like JKR who just keep going as if it's all water off a duck's back. I also really admire the scrappy honesty of Glinner all the other people who are clearly hurt by the insanity of the situation and the personal vindictiveness aimed at them for pointing it out. He hasn't threatened anyone, he hasn't said anything disgusting or dehumanising, he's just made clear his own incredulity and outrage at an outrageous situation. The people who have not lost careers and relationships in this pointing and tutting at him lose my respect. Reminds me of how women in abusive relationships are dismissed as hysterical and vindictive if they ever allow their suffering to show and try to tell the truth about how they are treated.

Edit - just for clarity I'm not responding to anything. I agree with pretty much every other recent post on the thread. I'm just ranting myself!

Well I love Janice Turner’s writing and trust her instincts on GC issues but that isn’t a book review it’s a review of a bad personal relationship.

I’m surprised by blocking someone if his apparent crime is to be ‘messianic’ and not to acknowledge women’s groups enough. But either he’s just mansplained and irritated her or women she knows well and she’s reaching for what factual reasons she can cite for dislike in an article… or there’s something more we’re not being told.

This is the thing though- GC beliefs need to be presented to as many people as possible and that will take as many people as possible to do it . We don’t have experts and spokespeople and leaders.

What there is in desperate times of being harassed and shut down is exactly the people who are laser focus single issue speakers and who will stick their heads above the parapet who will get out there and win the argument. A lot of us agree with the issues but we have kids and jobs and relationships we can’t lose and we don’t do that publicly. He has done.

I believe moderate women-led advocacy is not the only way to make this argument and so I don’t mind men being involved because they will convince other men of the issues. Julie Bindel has her sphere of influence, Linehan has his. Fine. Every values-based movement generates factions because the protagonists all really care about it and all think they know the right way to make the arguement.

Look how Posie Parker is shunned and sidelined by a lot of GC women. She has committed the heinous crime of getting GC issues on TV and being a spokesperson on an issue which was being absolutely ignored by the powers that be. She’s done amazing work.

So I’m not going to judge Janice Turner’s excellent oeuvre by this article but but I’m certainly not going to judge Graham Linehan by it either.

I generally like Janice Turner but I don't think this was necessary.
Every single one of us who has seen the insanity of TRAs has found that difficult to cope with. Linehan can be a bit of a hothead but he also owns his mistakes and clearly feels strongly about standing up for what's right.
I don't expect any person who has come under so much pressure to react perfectly. I know I wouldn't. It just feels unnecessary, especially if she hasn't even read the book.
I have and it's not crazed ranting about anything. Most of it isn't about trans stuff at all and is instead a fascinating and funny insight into writing comedy and the story behind Father Ted and the IT Crowd.
The biggest feeling I got from the parts where he does talk about trans conflict is a bewildered 'what the fuck' and substantial hurt that people he has known all his life will turn their backs without listening or even a second thought. I think we can all identify with that.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4895784-graham-linehans-book?reply=129896138&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

here is link to discussion on the book thread.

Yes this review is unfair and misrepresents the book. She says "Such is Linehan’s hyperbole, the book contains more than 20 uses of “Nazi/Nazis”." - from my quick flick through the book yesterday I've seen two of those 'uses of Nazi.' One was him quoting an initial long interview answer that he gave which included something very general about what people stand up to and when, not drawing any direct equivalences at all. The second was reporting on the immediate misreporting of this as 'Glinner said TRAs are Nazis.'

So yes, why would she do this seems about right to me. She's clearly run a text search for the word to join in with an argument made in bad faith by TRAs. Why would she do that?

She’s not wrong.

The review does seem to be more about her relationship with Glinner than the actual book.

This is discussed on the Graham Linehan's Book thread.

But yeah , the Times might have done better to have the book reviewed by someone with no preconceptions - as far as possible. Rather than by someone who has blocked the author.

She possibly didn’t read the acknowledgements, but may have read the book.

Although in principle, obviously I agree that a book review falls at the first hurdle if the reviewer hasn’t read the book.

I haven’t read the book. So I don’t know if her review is fair - her comments on the wider context may well have some merit.