SWP

This leaflet was being given out near the LWS Liverpool event on Sunday. It made me absolutely furious....how dare they use those women's names in this way.

Your analysis is weak , comrade , it will collapse under the weight of its own contradictions innit.

Paul Foot was a damn good writer though. Red Shelley is a great read. And was the backbone of Private Eye for years. I doubt there are any serious thinkers in the party now. It always had a leftwing rugby club feel about it.

A few well placed and incisive slogans, and down it comes.

Thank you for putting it in perspective. I had found it quite alarming. Very violent and macho. Why 'smash' everything?

And if it were by some miracle actually smashed by SW readers then Hamas would be unopposed.

Their habit of encouraging people to smash things has has always been a bit daft. How are readers in the UK meant to smash the Israeli state?

That front cover of the Socialist Worker looks very close to glorification of terrorism.

They have their own printing press, which is why they do others people's posters and newspapers.

Never knew that. How new Labour. Implement capitalist methods to pay for your "socialism".

He has invested too much money and time to ever recognise any wrong within the party

Quite honestly OP, I wouldn't put to much intellectual energy into trying to understand them.

Just ask him so show what if anything they have achieved?

Or even more bluntly, whether despite all of their political rhetoric, it is just a male bonding exercise and desire to have their photo taken by local papers.

(All the demos in my area are gate crashed by SWP and then all that happens is a photo appears in the local press with the same men looking really proud of themselves as they raise their clenched fists. Purile.)

"I dont know where they get the money because there are just hundreds"

They have their own printing press, which is why they do others people's posters and newspapers.

"I dont know where they get the money because there are just hundreds"

They have their own printing plant, which is why they do so many other people's too. It

@IwantToRetire yea all that sounds familiar, unfortunately. Their financing gives them a leg up unless you've suitably deep pockets and/or a good supply of creative talent to dampen their effects

My experience is that they hijack many movements to promote themselves.

On one level it is almost irrelevant what they say they believe or why they might do x, y or z.

Apart from the Comrade Delta disgrace their influence is that they have managed to alienate any number of people from joining demonstrations.

You turn up to a demo about an issue organised by a named group, but when you get there every placard is from the SWP implying they are the organisers of the demo.

I dont know where they get the money because there are just hundreds. There always used to be a joke that if you wanted your own placard you just needed a piece of A3 paper and some sellotape. Arrive at demo, take an SWP placard and tape your own message over theirs.

They never have anything to say. Their whole objective is to be on the platform, get photos of them giving the clenched fits salute, and then go to the pub for a pint.

And yes they are quite good at group shouting.

Am I not being over the top but I know so many who just dont bother going to demos because afterwards the most the media will do is post photos, and all of them will be showing SWP placards.

Sisters Uncut are a sort of female equivilant parasitic political group.

" Posh blokes can be decent people of course however I am rather suspicious of revolutionary socialist movements run by ultra posh academics who centralise all power on themselves and retain it for decades as in the case of the swp"

And profess to be the voice of the working class.

Are they perhaps over compensating @Karensalright ? I was close to some SWP members in the 80s , lovely people for the most part. But they were a bit 'straight' . They seemed to regard feminism as a bourgeois deviation. And Tony Cliff previously opined that homosexuality was caused by the distortions and pressures of capitalism. Or something.

A mate of mine went to a SWP open meeting and raised this point. He was reassured that the policy had been updated. Afterwards they all repaired to the pub and asked him to join them. Many pints later he found himself at a house party thinking ' how odd ; there's no women'. Belatedly , through the fog of alcohol , he realised one of the guys was hitting on him. They had assumed his orientation because he raised the issue of gay rights - but he styled his way out of it.

On the terrorism thing - they were always opposed to it. In fact Paul Foot , a leading member , had written an essay - Why Terrorism is Always Wrong. A lot of members left or were expelled back then and joined a group called Big Flame which was set up mainly by feminists, including Sheila Rowbotham iirc. I can't imagine the SW crowd I knew accepting TWAW ....but water wears away a stone.

There are plenty of other negatives about the SWP.

They helped harass gender crit women on multiple occasions. See here:
https://womansplaceuk.org/2021/10/30/open-letter-swp-abusive-protest/

The SWP are also pro-Imperialist. British trade unions have united in support of Ukraine via the Trade Union Congress since Russia's latest invasion in the last few years. SWP agitators have constantly tried to undermine this position their latest attempt was trying to stop a pro-Ukraine motion at congress from passing. Of course they failed. This is part of long history of being pro authoritarian militarist regimes.

https://labourlist.org/2023/09/tuc-congress-ukraine-solidarity-motion-secures-union-backing/

Also worthy of note it is run by a bunch of toffs one leader Alex Callinicos, is grandson of the 2nd Lord Acton, was educated at a top private school and another senior leader, Charlie Kimber, is the Old Etonian son of a baronet. The sex scandal involved another public school attendee. Classic cover up.

Posh blokes can be decent people of course however I am rather suspicious of revolutionary socialist movements run by ultra posh academics who centralise all power on themselves and retain it for decades as in the case of the swp. British public schools were designed to churn out charming elitist men who aim to secure themselves power in whatever institution they find themselves - business, conservative, left, or liberal politics, academia, the church, the sphere doesn't matter and the first people who get manipulated and sidelined if they are a problem are usually women, especially working class ones.

Quick trawl of a series of posts over the years about the SWP from the blog Harry's Place . Enjoy the walk down wackadoodle lane!

The SWP have always had the rent a mob (or uninvited mob) in their ranks. I rewatched life of Brian a few tears ago, themes of the absurd and zealot. The scene with the peoples popular front of Judaea and the Judea peoples popular front (splitters) had me dying laughing, aimed at the SWP, as was the bit about a man wanting to be a woman and have babies, the front agreed in the end that she had in principal the right to have babies…. A bit pertinent really.

My experience is that they hijack many movements to promote themselves.

I have friends who are members, that I generally like, but I dislike the movement and their hijacking of others, especially ones I'm part of where I see how divisive the presence of their logo and distribution of papers or leaflets can be. At some of our events people have taken their placards for our events, with messages that are generally quite good, and ripped off their logo so they're not promoting them. Some who are more confident engaging with other people have worked to identify people who've taken them unwittingly and suggested they do the same

I think you're well out of it.

@Namechange99forthis Yes i know of this thanks

By contrast the Communists take quite a different line...

https://www.communistparty.org.uk/the-gender-recognition-bill-and-equality-law/

@RoyalCorgi bloody hell thanks for that glad i left when i did

On Trans, they believe that trans rights are an issue for the working class, I still read their publications, and have not read anywhere that their line is trans women are real women. I doubt that they would adopt that.

It took me roughly five seconds to find this:

"The Socialist Workers Party (SWP) stands with the oppressed and unequivocally says, “Trans women are women,” and, “Trans men are men.” Trans people have the right to organise against their oppression and the right to protest against it. We stood in solidarity with the trans students and workers at the University of Sussex who were rightly outraged by Kathleen Stock’s views."

https://socialistworker.co.uk/press-releases/swp-response-to-letter-from-womans-place-uk/

I don't recall the name of Allison Bailey's SWP-associated roommate who reported her phone conversations and displayed an interesting attitude towards collegiality.

Belatedly, I recalled it's David Renton (he had something to say in re: Comrade Delta which contrasts in an interesting manner wrt his behaviour concerning Allison Bailey): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Renton

Hi all interesting post OP. I was an SWP member for along time left after Tony Cliff died as seemed to lose their way somewhat, along with Mark Steel and others. Knew who was on discipline committee at time delta thing blew up. As far as i was aware the victim female student was asked if she wanted to go to police but she declined.

SWP believe that our sexuality is moulded by capitalism, so Marxist don't know how human sexuality would evolve in utopia. This i think may have clouded their analysis of Delta’s conduct that is not within wider societies cultural norms.

On Trans, they believe that trans rights are an issue for the working class, I still read their publications, and have not read anywhere that their line is trans women are real women. I doubt that they would adopt that.

They are pro Palestine, but do not support terrorism, as they believe that the working class is the route to revolution and social equality for all.

an example of this was they supported the aims of the IRA (for a united Ireland) but not acts of terrorism as a method

So i doubt they support Hamas without criticism of the horrors now being committed

There has always been members who stray from the party line and say dumb things. So I would be asking your colleague to show you any article his sect/cult has produced with the Marxist theory that trans women are real women.

Of course someone here might surprise me and i have it all wrong.