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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour will make it easier for people to change their gender

40 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/10/2023 00:49

... a report by Labour’s National Policy Forum, to be voted on tomorrow, says: ‘The process of gender recognition is intrusive, outdated and humiliating. ‘Labour will modernise, simplify and reform the gender recognition law to a new process, taking into account international evidence of what works.’

Experts said that the wording of the policy paved the way for the removal of the current need for doctors to sign off a change in gender.

Equalities Minister Kemi Badenoch said: ‘Labour backed self-ID for five years because it’s what they really believe. A policy that endangers women and girls.

‘This policy document shows they haven’t changed their minds. We should all be worried about their real plans if they’re ever in government.’

https://manchestermag.com/labour-will-make-it-easier-for-people-to-change-their-gender-rift-opens-between-the-two-main-parties-on-woke-policies-after-rishi-sunak-declares-a-woman-is-a-woman

I think this is basically this article in the Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/08/kemi-badenoch-keir-starmer-labour-election-gender-trans/ which can be read by going to https://archive.ph and pasting in the Telegraph link above.

Labour will make it easier for people to change their gender: Rift opens between the two main parties on ‘woke’ policies after Rishi Sunak declares a ‘woman is a woman’

Labour will make it easier for people to change their gender: Rift opens between the two main parties on ‘woke’ policies after Rishi Sunak declares a ‘woman is a woman’

https://manchestermag.com/labour-will-make-it-easier-for-people-to-change-their-gender-rift-opens-between-the-two-main-parties-on-woke-policies-after-rishi-sunak-declares-a-woman-is-a-woman

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IwantToRetire · 11/10/2023 01:05

Gay conversion therapy ban

Labour would introduce a ban on gay conversion therapy that would include protections for <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/cwdtM/inews.co.uk/topic/transgender-rights?ico=in-line_link" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">transgender people, the party announced.

Shadow Women and Equalities Minister <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/cwdtM/inews.co.uk/news/politics/anneliese-dodds-labour-indignities-trans-people-womens-spaces-2528235?ico=in-line_link" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Anneliese Dodds said the party would bring forward a “no loopholes” ban on the practice – which is when people attempt to supress someone’s sexuality or gender identity.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/every-policy-announced-labour-conference-keir-starmer-speech-2678248

Fourteen policies announced at Labour conference so far

Sir Keir Starmer delivered his leader's speech on the third day of the Labour Party conference in Liverpool

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/every-policy-announced-labour-conference-keir-starmer-speech-2678248

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IwantToRetire · 10/10/2023 17:08

As far as I can make out, all the policies quoted in the Labour Policy Forum document are now policy, except when a group raises an objection or puts forward an alternative policy. (eg some Trade Unions want HS2 reinstated but Labour "policy" is no, and I think the TUs won a vote)

But this comes back to how democratic are any Party policies, and I think Labour long ago dropped the mass voting on polities etc..

So I would if there was an opportunity to put forward something more explicit both in relation to VAW and in relation to conversion therapy.

But of course even if there was an alternative policy it isn't likely that any ad hoc groupping would happen with the Labour Party being the way it is.

And I'm afraid in terms of the general public they have been fed Tory lite policies (I loved - ugh - this quote that Labour will develope whole new towns reflecting Georgian architecture). They seem to be going all out not to frightened disgruntled tories to get their vote. And now the Rachel Reeves has got the vote of the head of capitalist finances they will be even more "acceptable" that before.

And no, sad as it is, I dont think Labour will lose many votes over not supporting women's sex based rights.

Although I hear Starmer did get sprinkled with glitter - but not even about trans rights but - quite rightly - lack of democracy.

Look forward to 10 years of centralised government under Labour.

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LarkLane · 10/10/2023 14:03

the quality act gender reassignment category of 2010.
If you are going to quote The Law, in attempt to sound important and knowledgeable, do try and Google twice.

This is just bollocks.
HTH.

ArabellaScott · 10/10/2023 13:45

'Do you feel you have the backing of the leadership Rosie?'
...
'No.'

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1711444732696543345?s=20

https://twitter.com/RosieDuffield1/status/1711444732696543345?s=20

MargotBamborough · 10/10/2023 10:59

How the chuff does it need to be made easier to change something WHICH ISN'T REAL?

You can change your gender as easily as you can change the name of your imaginary friend.

Oh.

They don't mean it needs to be made easier to change your gender.

They mean sex, don't they?

Of course, it can't be made easier to change your sex because changing sex is impossible.

So what they actually mean is that it needs to be made easier to force the rest of society to pretend that you are the opposite sex to the one you actually are.

Whatthechicken · 10/10/2023 10:57

I am just so fed up of the lack of ambition when it comes to women’s rights. I just feel like we are constantly begging for scraps - and scraps is all we get.

A French Equality watchdog recently found that 90% of pornographic content online features verbal, physical and sexual violence towards women, and a significant amount of violence shown is punishable under existing laws in France. In my opinion pornography is one of the major drivers of misogyny and VAWG.

But instead of working towards the banning of pornography, we’re going to put a plaster on it. The rape, the coercion, the brutalisation of women will still occur, but Labour are going to prevent the algorithms from promoting the harmful content online.

Instead of trying to work towards a society that doesn’t have misogyny ingrained in it’s very fabric, we’re going to
make it a hate crime. Those adults that display misogynistic behaviours will get a telling off. It is a lot easier than trying to tackle the root causes granted, but in 10 years time under these type of policies, women will still be begging for the same scraps.

EasternStandard · 10/10/2023 09:58

RebelliousCow · 10/10/2023 09:35

Why don't you go and get one then, instead of trolling us here.

Ha yes

EasternStandard · 10/10/2023 09:58

while continuing to support the implementation of the 2010 Equality Act, including its provision for single-sex exemptions

How?

OldCrone · 10/10/2023 09:56

MishyJDI · 10/10/2023 09:22

Still amazed at how people get wound up on this. We already have self ID in effect from the quality act gender reassignment category of 2010.

All this would do is change a birth certificate which no-one practically uses in day to day life. And thus why few trans bother for a GRA certificate.

The EA also has the ability to separate trans people for a legitimate means.

Peeps getting wound up over things that already exist in effect today.

Time for a new hobby area!

So according to you, a GRC is practically useless.

Do you agree then that it's time to scrap the GRA?

I'm amazed at how the Labour party and SNP have made this such a priority. Instead of trying to change the GRA to make it easier for anyone to get one, they could just scrap it altogether and everyone would be happy.

Highandlows · 10/10/2023 09:56

This would become a woke hell country with Labour. Let’s not pretend otherwise.

RebelliousCow · 10/10/2023 09:35

MishyJDI · 10/10/2023 09:22

Still amazed at how people get wound up on this. We already have self ID in effect from the quality act gender reassignment category of 2010.

All this would do is change a birth certificate which no-one practically uses in day to day life. And thus why few trans bother for a GRA certificate.

The EA also has the ability to separate trans people for a legitimate means.

Peeps getting wound up over things that already exist in effect today.

Time for a new hobby area!

Why don't you go and get one then, instead of trolling us here.

Floisme · 10/10/2023 09:33

I'm even more amazed that posters who aren't even interested in the topic and think it's a big nothing spend so much time on threads like this.

Anyway I think the point is that Labour made a big show of stepping back from legislating for self ID and yet it's looking like all they're actually planning to change is the language.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 10/10/2023 09:29

It is true that we already have de facto self id because no one is allowed to ask to see a GRC or disclose that someone has one.

In practice any man who says he is a woman must be taken at his word as with any woman who says she is a man.

The way forward to sort this mess out is to clarify that the EA refers to sex and not gender identity and to repeal the GRA.

Laws should be based on objective, observable, immutable sex and and not subjective, invisible, changeable feelings.

Labour is extremely unlikely to restore women’s rights.

MishyJDI · 10/10/2023 09:22

Still amazed at how people get wound up on this. We already have self ID in effect from the quality act gender reassignment category of 2010.

All this would do is change a birth certificate which no-one practically uses in day to day life. And thus why few trans bother for a GRA certificate.

The EA also has the ability to separate trans people for a legitimate means.

Peeps getting wound up over things that already exist in effect today.

Time for a new hobby area!

Floisme · 10/10/2023 08:24

So they're dropping self-ID in favour of issuing a GRC through a process of ermm....... self identification? Is that correct?

IwantToRetire · 10/10/2023 01:46

Bear in mind this has not been voted for. It’s a proposal. Hopefully, it will be voted out!

I cant find anything about what has been voted on. So I was partly posting the info to compate against what goes through.

Its a massive list in total. I can believe each item will be voted on. I suspect most will get nodded through, and this publication was to allow anyone who wanted to raise anything about proposals has / had time to do so.

Tomorrow is the big set speech, so doubt they will be doing much else.

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AnnieSnap · 10/10/2023 01:00

Grimchmas · 09/10/2023 22:49

I have never felt more politically homeless.

Bear in mind this has not been voted for. It’s a proposal. Hopefully, it will be voted out!

Rudderneck · 10/10/2023 01:00
  • Seek to tackle misogyny as one of the root causes of violence against women and girls by preventing algorithms from promoting harmful content online and making tackling misogyny a key part of school accountability

This is just bad, I know they want it to be good, but I cannot see it having a great outcome. Don't we know how this kind of stuff goes in schools, it takes a ton of administrative effort, and just doesn't help. But can end up sometimes having bizarre outcomes in the class and school as they try and apply blanket approaches.

And hate speech laws are not good either IMO, they don't help but do become a means of control.

IwantToRetire · 10/10/2023 00:49

From the Labour Policy document published prior to the Conference:

  • Introduce a full, no-loopholes, trans-inclusive ban on conversion therapy
  • Modernise, simplify and reform the gender recognition law to a new process, taking into account international evidence of what works effectively, while continuing to support the implementation of the 2010 Equality Act, including its provision for single-sex exemptions
  • Work to end discrimination against trans people, non-binary and gender diverse people and ensure they are treated with respect and dignity in society

and

  • Make tackling violence against women and girls a government-wide strategic commitment, including working with domestic violence, workforce and prevention services to ensure victims are supported
  • Put domestic abuse specialists in the control rooms of every police force, responding to 999 calls and supporting victims of abuse
  • Ensure there is a specialist rape unit in every police force
  • Seek to tackle misogyny as one of the root causes of violence against women and girls by preventing algorithms from promoting harmful content online and making tackling misogyny a key part of school accountability
  • Make misogyny a hate crime to make sure all police forces record the violence and harassment suffered by women

https://labourlist.org/2023/10/labour-national-policy-forum-final-document-summary-policy-manifesto-party-conference/#six

Revealed: Full final policy platform set to shape next Labour manifesto – LabourList | Latest UK Labour Party news, analysis and comment

Labour delegates will be asked to sign off the party's wide-ranging current policy programme at annual conference, after years of work thrashing out positions on…

https://labourlist.org/2023/10/labour-national-policy-forum-final-document-summary-policy-manifesto-party-conference#six

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ThreeLeggedPug · 10/10/2023 00:33

I need to know where Labour stands on women’s safety, it dictates how I vote.

IwantToRetire · 10/10/2023 00:24

So sorry agent765 - they really can make claimants life absolute hell.

And its funny about how the media goes on about how great it is that Starmer is more Blair than anything, and all those awful Blairites are out an about making comments.

Because under tony blair they franchised out the unemployment offices in my area (and maybe elsewhere) to some private company (whose CEO just might have been a friend of the then PM).

It was a complete disaster, and the worse thing was the company kept on getting paid whilst claimants were not only not getting their weekly allowance but not their housing benefit either. One woman ended up basically in a sex for rent situation. Just horrible. And bad as the local council had been, they at least sorted it out althouhgit took them a year. No profit in doing that for the private company.

And dont forget Blair was the one who bought in PFI. The result of which is that now many schools and hospitals are paying off debts to private companies, and are effectively in the same unsustainable economic situation as developing countries who paying out more in debt repayments (to the west) than they spend on their own country.

So quite honestly, even if there wasn't the "what is a woman" nonsnese, I am not sure what voting to Starmer's Labour would mean. A sort of Tory lite party, run by a metropolitan elite.

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agent765 · 09/10/2023 22:51

PomegranateOfPersephone · 09/10/2023 17:12

If I ever vote Labour again it will be because they have genuinely Labour economic policies such as renationalisation of water, energy, social housing, building more council houses, putting schools back under LA control, getting contractor out of the NHS and council services, bring back Sure Start centres and make more of them etc and that they are focusing on all the above and have totally dumped identity politics.

I've voted Labour - probably out of habit - all my life. I won't vote for them until they return to their old policies either.

I have no idea what they stand for any more.

ETA I'm disabled and was told by the advisor who helps me claim my benefits that they expect Labour to be harsher with disability benefits. But not so up-front about their restrictions! It took me YEARS to get benefits as I simply had no support. My surgery won't write supporting letters (even if I had a single GP who knew my difficulties).

Since finally finding a benefits advisor who would see me (my county doesn't have one!), I've filled in forms properly and been able to get copies of my records for support. I was given a 10-year award as my condition is a degenerating one. I dread going back in 2 years to re-apply. I suspect I'm far from the only person who feels like this.

Grimchmas · 09/10/2023 22:49

I have never felt more politically homeless.

BlackForestCake · 09/10/2023 22:46

Ramblingnamechanger · 09/10/2023 18:20

Agree that the process for claiming any benefits especially Disability benefits is truly humiliating. This needs to be reformed urgently and the GRC should be abolished , and the GRA repealed. Labour should be asked about this. Not convinced there has been any change in their attitude over womens sex based protections.

Indeed, when I hear people complaining the process to get a GRC is humiliating and invasive, I can only hope they never have to claim Universal Credit.

Badbadbunny · 09/10/2023 19:22

MistyGreenAndBlue · 09/10/2023 17:01

Me too. That would actually help a lot of people though.

People Labour don't actually care about, like the disabled. I guess we just aren't fashionable enough. ☹

Labour know that most disabled people would vote for them and wouldn't vote Tory, so they've no need to try to please them to get their votes!

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