Dismissed by supposed ally husband

Tribalism helps nobody.
Agreed. I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who say "I vote X because our family have always voted X".
If Political Party X knows that they always have your vote, no matter what they do, then they have no impetus to move policies towards your preferred direction.

I don't know where the idea comes from that 'discussion' is about flinging insults, or that bullying or shaming people is the best or the morally correct way to change people's minds.

Tribalism helps nobody.

I'm politically homeless.

I remember Thatcher's policies and the way they impact us to this day. However I have contacted my MP about a couple of things and she has been prompt with the answers.

But she is a Tory.

Also when the council elections were coming up I tried to ask my local Labour councilor what a woman is and he laughed at me and walked away telling me to, "go have a conversation with someone else".

I would usually vote Labour. I can't because of statements like these.

I'm interested in Labours policies, what are they actually going to do, should they get in, in the UK?

Moro if you genuinely want to discuss, see Slothtoes reasoned and reasonable comment further upthread. This is a more effective way to engage with people who disagree.

Is this the state of political discourse, when 'you're lying' is applied reflexively to people who don't fall neatly into your worldview?

It's one way to keep life simple, I guess. A world filled with black and white and the shades of grey and any hint of complication erased by accusations of duplicity.

It only speaks to your own deficiency.

'truly against the Tories'?

The sensible way to vote is to base your decision on assessment of a range of issues.

And fwiw I think it's both rude and counterproductive to hector people.

Think that if you want, but I genuinely believe that no one could be so close minded

with due respect, Moro, this post of yours is remarkably close-minded.

@Boiledbeetle Think that if you want, but I genuinely believe that no one could be so close minded as to vote for a party based on one issue, however large. Not when there are countless other large issues that the Tories are responsible for that are destroying the country.

You're wrong

Anyone who is willing to vote Tory and using this as their excuse is lying. You were going to vote Tory anyway. There is no way anyone who is truly against the Tories and who isn’t blind to the state this country is in would ever vote for them for this reason alone.

You were always planning to vote for them.

OK let’s get this straight because a decently funded NHS and decently funded public services like state education are absolutely a cross cutting essential social question for the vast vast majority in the UK. Life or death.

Vote Tory if you like the Tories.
And Vote Tory if you want to see the dismantling of the NHS and public services like state education (just to give one single example) on which millions of women and our kids rely on in the UK. The NHS and public services are used by the vast majority of the population. We can’t pay for these privately.

Yes gender woo is currently shamefully obscuring some sets of public statistics including to do with the NHS and public services like education. Absolutely yes regulatory capture is a travesty. Thank god here we can all talk and organise to campaign against that.

However to claim to vote for the Tories, who by their actions we can see are hostile to funding essential public services decently- let alone funding them effectively or well … on the basis that Labour or the alternative parties, would obscure statistics about the recipients of public services with gender woo is bullshit.

This whole problem is already here. It arrived and embedded in institutions over the past 13 years. And what have the government of the past 13 years done about it? The Tories, who apparently are the only party who ‘know what a woman is’ have given us £5 GRCs. That’s literally it. And they pulled back on imposing self ID on the country just a couple of years ago.

We don’t need to wait for sex-accurate government statistics to tell us who heads up single parent households in the vast vast majority of situations in the UK and is therefore highly vulnerable to the decimation of public services It’s Women

We don’t need to wait for sex-accurate government statistics to tell us which group is underpaid relative to men and is therefore highly vulnerable to the decimation of public services. It’s Women

and so on. We already know these things. Structural social and economic discrimination against women is flourishing under the Tories right now. It’s awful.

So voting for Tories who we already know would support women economically less, because we think the alternative parties would obscure statiics in the same way as the Tories currently do (or maybe three would do it worse let’s be really pessimistic) doesn’t make sense.

There will be even worse funding for public services coming under future Tory governments. Whatever word the Tories, or Labour, or anyone else uses to label those women with. We know who the victims are now and will continue to be in future. Women.

So personally for me, voting for a party that would fund public services as a priority is the most pro-woman action I can take.

@PermanentTemporary "I would stop talking about it. He's said his piece. He doesn't get to control your vote. Neither do we, incidentally."

This ^

My DH and I are on opposite sides of several issues, so we just don't discuss them. We agree to differ and it saves a lot of arguments and ill-feeling. 🙂

I think your main problem is realising your husband is not who you thought he was. I had the same problem

yes, the main issue in the op was about a man and supposed partner who totally dismisses the ops legitimate sex-based concerns because they don’t affect him and his penis privilege. This is a demonstration of patriarchy and misogyny. Him saying, “I understand your concerns and agree with them but I still think … “ would be a different matter.

I’m not sure how this turned into a Tory v. Labour or other thread …

The current tory government are the most insidious, misogynistic, dangerous bunch of politicians I've ever seen in my life. They've been buoyed by the bunch of selfish right wing zealots who voted them in, and have successfully rebranded basic human empathy as a negative thing, by calling it 'woke'

Whilst I don't disagree with your stance OP, I find the thought of a single more year of tory rule far far more worrying than a new Labour government.

Your husband can't force you to vote a certain way just like you can't force him to.

I think it is terribly sweet that so many people think labour is the answer.

They have literally zero policies. You have no idea what they will do, because they don't either.

What a shit show

I completely agree. The faux progressive misogyny of their extremists also frightens me.

Basically, if it's such a minor thing why isn't anyone telling the TRAs to back down and focus on the real important stuff?

This!

If replacing women's rights and political voice with some hazy idea based on gender is so much less important than all the other issues why are Labour not just defusing that bomb now by saying they will make no further moves towards self id in law or in practice, and reassert that the existing rights to offer single sex services and support are valid, reasonable and should be respected and protected? Why is it women that need to swallow shit for the good of all rather than those who want to reduce and marginalise us?

Basically, if it's such a minor thing why isn't anyone telling the TRAs to back down and focus on the real important stuff?

That is a horrible thing for staff to have said. But the for purposes of voting, there are things I find much more alarming.

I am amazed why people still want to vote Labour when thy don't know even what a woman is !!

Wtf are you on about? My question asked where you got that data from and if it was another example of language mangling? I made no other comment about that.

Apparently the answer is, 'Even if' - as though it's entirely irrelevant and academic that this aptly demonstrates that there is a gulf between the comprehension skills of much of the general public, so much so that they could incorrectly and accidentally declare themselves to be transgender, and the way that that this new language is being deployed to change important policy.

Single issue voting on trans undermines all these issues that affect everyone in the country.

Can I just point out that it's a womens rights issue here, and not a singular problem. Many political issues can disproportionatly affect women (eg Benefits, as so many women are carers, Health eg endless maternity unit scandals and Public Transport, as so many women do shift work). But we can't measure the impact of policy decisions unless we know what a woman is (and isn't) and are collecting clear data. We can't monitor pay gaps between men and women if senior males can put "she/her" pronouns in their emails and then fudge the figures. We can't look at crime stats and offender rehabilitation if we're forced to pretend that women can be rapists. How can we trust politicians who want to run a country based on pretence and feelings rather than facts and reality?

I mean, it's been widely reported that the staff at the Tavistock clinic joked about the fact that there would be no more gay kids left because they would all have transitioned.

I find that pretty alarming.