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Green Party Deputy Leader on being 'gender critical'

129 replies

ArabellaScott · 07/10/2023 14:31

https://thecritic.co.uk/it-isnt-easy-being-a-gender-critical-green/

'The Deputy Leader of the Green Party Zack Polanski also thinks people with gender critical views aren’t welcome in the party. He’s made it clear that “those members who claim that trans women are men and trans men are women – should not have a place in the Greens.”'

Quoting this interview from earlier this year:

https://leftfootforward.org/2023/03/zack-polanski-interview-transphobia-is-not-welcome-in-the-green-party/

'... he says that the small number of members who take a contrary view to the party’s policies on trans rights – specifically those members who claim that trans women are men and trans men are women – should not have a place in the Greens. He says: “I’m really clear that if you want to misgender someone then that is transphobic and transphobia is not welcome in the Green Party.”'

sounds like potential discrimination, to me.

I'd also add that saying a 'small number' of members are 'gender critical' is a deliberate distortion.

It isn’t easy being a gender critical Green | Nathan Williams | The Critic Magazine

This weekend the Green Party is gathering for its Autumn conference in Brighton. Given the increasing urgency of the climate crisis and the appalling record of the current government you might think…

https://thecritic.co.uk/it-isnt-easy-being-a-gender-critical-green

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 23:20

Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 21:07

I suppose throwing out everyone who doesn't say and think only what they're instructed to and ensuring no diversity of thought or opinion is one way to 'heal the rift'.....

Er. It'll certainly lower the costs for membership mailouts. And ensure debates are as short as possible. In fact, no debate required! Just email out a list of accepted beliefs and positions every six months or so. And the latest flag.

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Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 21:07

I suppose throwing out everyone who doesn't say and think only what they're instructed to and ensuring no diversity of thought or opinion is one way to 'heal the rift'.....

stealthwalnut · 08/10/2023 16:45

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 16:31

She ought to face a disciplinary for that.

Really bad move.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 16:38

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 16:33

Also attacking someone in public who has an open court case against the party probably isn't the best move.

😶

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 16:33

Also attacking someone in public who has an open court case against the party probably isn't the best move.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 16:31

She ought to face a disciplinary for that.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 16:27

stealthwalnut · 08/10/2023 16:22

Woah, that's not on! How come? Are votes only in person, because that's really unfair on anyone who can't travel. Of course women with caring commitments will be more affected

Yep.

So it's loaded in favour of the privileged, then. Those who can take the time and money to travel, those without caring duties, the able bodied. Great. This has been discussed at conference before, all those issues were raised afair. They bloody know.

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Original poster
ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 16:26

What the fuck is wrong with these people?!

'I have been outside@TheGreenParty conference giving out leaflets on women's rights alongside members of the Green Party who set up the Green Women's Declaration@GWDeclaration
@ChescaWalton (A Green Party PPC) ripped down the banner because she finds women's rights offensive.'

'Chesca claims that she stood as a co chair of Green Party Women with the intention of 'healing the rift in the party'. She may want to work on her technique. Criminal damage is not a great way to signal that she is open to listening to those who disagree with her

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stealthwalnut · 08/10/2023 16:25

In that Twitter thread, Emma Bateman says:

"Chesca claims that she stood as a co chair of Green Party Women with the intention of 'healing the rift in the party'. She may want to work on her technique. Criminal damage is not a great way to signal that she is open to listening to those who disagree with her."

stealthwalnut · 08/10/2023 16:22

Woah, that's not on! How come? Are votes only in person, because that's really unfair on anyone who can't travel. Of course women with caring commitments will be more affected

Yep.

stealthwalnut · 08/10/2023 16:20

How dare green women think differently to her!

stealthwalnut · 08/10/2023 16:17

Here's chesca being very cross about women doing what women have always had to do; organise.

x.com/emmabatemangpw/status/1711028613066146010?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

literalviolence · 08/10/2023 14:18

Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 12:52

'You're transphobic' (you will not unconditionally enable and agree with the chosen fiction of someone from a more powerful group than you regardless of the impact of enacting this fiction on you and on others which may involve removing their equality,access, dignity, consent and safety where incompatible with protecting the fiction)

means quite simply 'you are a heretic/infidel'.

That's it. That's all.

Edited

Yes it's a mistake to think transphobic is the trans equivalent of homophobic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 12:54

Exactly, Frood.

Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 12:52

'You're transphobic' (you will not unconditionally enable and agree with the chosen fiction of someone from a more powerful group than you regardless of the impact of enacting this fiction on you and on others which may involve removing their equality,access, dignity, consent and safety where incompatible with protecting the fiction)

means quite simply 'you are a heretic/infidel'.

That's it. That's all.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 12:50

They're already whining about having to defend themselves in court.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 12:50

But in their minds, they will probably be convinced, and think they have a fair basis for making the accusation.

And hopefully they will be disabused of that notion, if they lose any of these cases.

PorcelinaV · 08/10/2023 12:12

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 11:47

I'd say calling 'gc views' 'transphobia' is discrimination.

Well arguably yes, as I think it's a moral condemnation that accuses someone of an irrational prejudice, when there isn’t any clear justification for that. And actually, you can argue that it's the TWAW side that are guilty of being irrational.

It's heavily question-begging and inflammatory rhetoric.

Although you can say that people should be allowed to make the argument that such and such a position is bigotry.

I think it's bad behaviour to jump to calling people bigots, and one problem with trans-activists is that they maybe aren't going to even try to rationally defend it.

But in their minds, they will probably be convinced, and think they have a fair basis for making the accusation.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 11:47

I'd say calling 'gc views' 'transphobia' is discrimination.

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PorcelinaV · 08/10/2023 11:42

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2023 19:55

But I think the Green Party did make it an official part of their beliefs.

It's not the primary focus of their organisation, it's completely unrelated and they don't have much of a mandate for it. Most of the membership don't attend the conferences to vote these policies in. They're also snuck in under the radar.

Leaving aside that it's not legal under the EA to harass people even if you were technically allowed to discriminate in accepting them as members as a proportionate means to a legitimate aim.

I concede the point that they don't appear to have a mandate for it. (From a quick look.)

It seems that merely disagreeing with an official policy wouldn't get you thrown out in general.

They could maybe argue something like "transphobia" would bring the party into disrepute.

But their own code of conduct says that they have to play nice over disagreements, and:

11.3 Members must not behave in a discriminatory manner towards someone on the basis of any protected characteristic that person may have.

12.1 As the Green Party welcomes people from a wide range of backgrounds, members may encounter people who hold differing political or philosophical worldviews. Freedom of belief and the right to change that belief is a fundamental human right. Members should therefore show tolerance and respect towards people that hold political or philosophical worldviews that differ from their own.

A message from Caroline Lucas MP

The Green Party

https://greenparty.org.uk

LoobiJee · 08/10/2023 10:39

'We are not doing anything wrong, because we're not prejudiced against GOOD and NICE people like us, we're only doing it to THOSE people who are horrible and vile and no good person would think they needed equality or rights, they're scum who should be controlled'.

What’s interesting Frood is that, in order to get buy-in to that mindset across civic society, the TRA lobby groups first of all launched a “most marginalised in society” victim narrative using inaccurate and exaggerated claims about violence against, suicide by, and suffering of people who identify as transgender; then followed that up by misrepresenting any questioning of male access to females in a state of undress as hostility and hatred towards unhappy individuals; and then launched an aggressive, uncompromising, and sustained campaign of silencing, denigrating and making persona non grata, targeted at anyone asking the most reasonable and mild of questions.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 10:08

I think we are living through something very similar to the Salem witch trials and history will analyse the current madness ad infinitum.

I agree. I've recently taken a brief social media break ( just a couple of weeks) and I've been hit by just how insane it all is.

WorriedMutha · 08/10/2023 09:27

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literalviolence · 08/10/2023 09:22

Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 09:10

I'd think it was a clear breach of everything that Europe has tried to achieve from what it learned in WW1 and WW2, the human rights act, all the values the left spend so much time spouting about but apparently only identify as believing in.

But apparently it's time for another WW because the current political elite have learned fuck all and haven't the capacity to have actual morals and values rather than SPADs.

What's going on currently most resembles last months of the reign of Henry the Eighth with total chaos, corruption, extremism everywhere, and everyone afraid to mention a settled opinion, and people being arrested and burned alive in public for being suspected of believing the Wrong Fashionable Thing. I suppose at least at the moment it's virtual burning.

Show quote history

I think we are living through something very similar to the Salem witch trials and history will analyse the current madness ad infinitum.

Froodwithatowel · 08/10/2023 09:10

literalviolence · 08/10/2023 09:06

Is there no parliamentary place to make a complaint against this given that it appears to be a clear breach of the law of our land?

I'd think it was a clear breach of everything that Europe has tried to achieve from what it learned in WW1 and WW2, the human rights act, all the values the left spend so much time spouting about but apparently only identify as believing in.

But apparently it's time for another WW because the current political elite have learned fuck all and haven't the capacity to have actual morals and values rather than SPADs.

What's going on currently most resembles last months of the reign of Henry the Eighth with total chaos, corruption, extremism everywhere, and everyone afraid to mention a settled opinion, and people being arrested and burned alive in public for being suspected of believing the Wrong Fashionable Thing. I suppose at least at the moment it's virtual burning.