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Original poster

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

996 replies

ickky · 06/10/2023 15:32

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
pronounsbundlebundle · 10/10/2023 16:07

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/10/2023 15:16

I keep hoping that in one of these court cases, these organisations will actually be able to come up with a good justifiable reason why they behaved like they did but all it seems to come down to everytime is that the TRA side were shouty & threatened us with all sorts so we sided with them for a quiet life and hoped it would go away

Perfectly put and this is why one of the areas where women are really still not equal - i.e. the motherhood pay/career gap - is a shame. If there were more people in IF's position who'd had to wrangle toddlers and small children, there would have been less capitulation to the tantrums and an understanding that once you start to capitulate, even in small ways, it's a slippery slope (of course, may examples of this in history also - but we seem to have forgotten that recently as evidenced with the Canadian parliament).

I have just dealt with a burgeoning small child tantrum. I did not just capitulate for a quiet life.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2023 16:07

Apologies meant to quote you @AutumnCrow

Original poster
ickky · 10/10/2023 16:06

@Madcats Yes you can see why he is expensive, worth every penny though.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2023 16:06

By admin staff does he mean HR?

I imagine HR, Comms, secretarial staff could all be involved. And he mentioned about people's "offspring" in the quote from @Mmmnotsure upthread so I guess anyone in the staff could have come with their "concerns".

Madcats · 10/10/2023 16:05

Ickky maybe have an OU "crucified" subheading.

I can't read that Times profile of Ben from last year, but I am trying to decide whether he would be a delight or a nightmare to have (had) as a sibling.

The amount of planning that must go into his cross examinations must be extraordinary.

Original poster
ickky · 10/10/2023 16:05

Think we need the good old side eye as well.

OP posts:
chilling19 · 10/10/2023 16:05

ickky · 10/10/2023 16:01

Maybe just emoji's next to their names = smiley and frowns.

Yes
👍
😬
😡

Original poster
ickky · 10/10/2023 16:04

35 in the room, is she gonna blow?

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 10/10/2023 16:02

By admin staff does he mean HR? Is he saying the OU's HR staff don't understand what academic freedom is?

Sisterpita · 10/10/2023 16:01

This is why EF was such a good witness to Jo, clearly GI but respected right to have GC views and how to debate without impacting friendship.

Original poster
ickky · 10/10/2023 16:01

Maybe just emoji's next to their names = smiley and frowns.

OP posts:
dunBle · 10/10/2023 15:59

ickky · 10/10/2023 15:42

On the next thread I am going to list IF as a witness for Jo's side. 😀

The thing is, if you do that and loads more of the OU's witnesses turn out to be as utterly useless for their case as IF, it'd give a misleading impression of how well supported Jo actually was . Perhaps divide them into "OU witnesses - party line" and "Ou witnesses - counterproductive" ?

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 10/10/2023 15:58

I also met with admin staff for eg, who wouldn't have understood about ac freedom

I don't work in a university in any capacity, never have, and I understand academic freedom just fine.

Poilera · 10/10/2023 15:55

MrsDoylesCake · 10/10/2023 15:45

It would be interesting to know if he attended Pride events as part of his university role. That seems out of step with the too busy/six of one-half a dozen of the other narrative.

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Pretty sure IF is gay- so I reckon attending in a personal capacity

chilling19 · 10/10/2023 15:55

I do miss the totally online version of the tribunals. You could see people's expressions.

Original poster
ickky · 10/10/2023 15:54

34 in the room and no crashing!

OP posts:
chilling19 · 10/10/2023 15:52

Bundle problems <ducks>

Mochudubh · 10/10/2023 15:52

I also met with admin staff for eg, who wouldn't have understood about ac freedom - they were concerned with impact on their offspring, on their working conditions.

Patronising much?

Mmmnotsure · 10/10/2023 15:51

IF's bundle "totally illegible".

chilling19 · 10/10/2023 15:50

Lark - 😂😂😂😂😂

Original poster
ickky · 10/10/2023 15:50

LarkLane · 10/10/2023 15:49

Who did he walk with? He wasn't one of Cruella's pups on a leash was he?
<me being hopeful>

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😂😂😂I fucking hope not.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2023 15:49
Grin
LarkLane · 10/10/2023 15:49

chilling19 · 10/10/2023 15:40

So when the prof was on the pride match he finally got it. 👏

Who did he walk with? He wasn't one of Cruella's pups on a leash was he?
<me being hopeful>

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/10/2023 15:48

If I work for a university in a non academic role there are fundamental issues I need to understand about what a university does, just as if I work for a local authority I need to understand appropriate behaviour and what public money can and can't be spent on.

Mmmnotsure · 10/10/2023 15:46

dunBle · 10/10/2023 15:45

I cackled very loudly when I got to that bit, thinking exactly the same thing.

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See also, that's helpful.

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