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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?

768 replies

lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 13:39

Just curious to see what the answers here might be.
Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was the Tory party leader and the election was tomorrow?
Feel free to answer any way you like, and I don't care about derailing. The question is quite tongue in cheek, don't take it too seriously, and have fun with it if you want, rant if you want. I'm trying to get a picture of the MN mood.

OP posts:
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15
2Rebecca · 02/11/2023 07:23

Yes

SaffronSpice · 02/11/2023 01:16

voted for GPs buying in private services

Curious about this. GPs are private businesses and have been since the inception of the NHS, alongside, dentists, opticians and pharmacists. What private services are you referring to? IT provision? Property management? Taking over other GP practices when their partners retire? Locum services? Leasing equipment? Accountancy to ensure optimum tax efficiency for withdrawing each partners share of profits? Insurance? Legal services?

VivienneDelacroix · 02/11/2023 00:58

No fucking chance. She has voted against raising corporation tax, against improved benefits for disabled people, against measures to prevent climate change, voted for GPs buying in private services, voted against immigration policies which would prevent endangering lives at sea, against keeping fundamental human rights in line with the EU.
She couldn't even be bothered to turn up to vote for abortion reform in Northern Ireland. -That's how much she really cares about women's rights.

She voted against UK law enabling unaccompanied children in Europe who have a family member in the UK to seek asylum in the UK. So she voted to keep children alone and unsafe.
She voted not to raise the threshold for denying an individual the 30-day recovery period for victims, or potential victims of slavery or trafficking, during which they cannot be removed from the United Kingdom, and and to allow those under 18 years to be denied the recovery period. - She literally voted to allow enslaved children to be slung our if the country with no support.

She voted against giving legal aid representation to bereaved people at inquests where a public body has a connection to the case.

She voted not to waive immigration and nationality related fees for non UK citizens in the UK armed forces who have served for at least five years, and their dependents.

Hurrydash · 02/11/2023 00:33

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/11/2023 00:27

I'm not attempting to lay all the blame with the Tories. I'm telling you that it happened when they were in government. Due to TRAs in the Tory party and TRA donors to the Tory party.

I get that it's hard for many of you to accept that your beloved Conservatives did this. Much easier to blame the Opposition. And it totally sounds like the sort if thing Labour, LibDems etc. would be in to.

But it was the Tory party that ceded our rights to trans folk and refuse to uphold them now. They won't even give the necessary guidance to schools.

At best, the Conservative party is useless wrt women's rights. At worst their continuing chaos and erosion of those rights will be to the detriment of women as a class.

I didn't see anyone defending the tories here.
Just read the Labour policies - summarised in the posts below - and if you want to support those objectives that's your right.
As per posts please just stop gaslighting.
Thanks and all the best.

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/11/2023 00:27

I'm not attempting to lay all the blame with the Tories. I'm telling you that it happened when they were in government. Due to TRAs in the Tory party and TRA donors to the Tory party.

I get that it's hard for many of you to accept that your beloved Conservatives did this. Much easier to blame the Opposition. And it totally sounds like the sort if thing Labour, LibDems etc. would be in to.

But it was the Tory party that ceded our rights to trans folk and refuse to uphold them now. They won't even give the necessary guidance to schools.

At best, the Conservative party is useless wrt women's rights. At worst their continuing chaos and erosion of those rights will be to the detriment of women as a class.

Hurrydash · 02/11/2023 00:20

I suggest you read and reflect on lechiffre55's post below.

The answers are all there.

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/11/2023 00:10

Hurrydash · 01/11/2023 22:18

It's not about the past it's about the future.

Labour proposed policies are an abomination of women's and children's rights.

It's not about the past It's about the future.

What do you base the future on?

The Tories are in government in the present. They will be in government for 7months to 1year into the future. How do you see them progressing women's rights in this time?

If they win the next GE, it will be with a much reduced majority. What do you think will happen in their future and how will it benefit women?

SaffronSpice · 01/11/2023 23:55

On top of that you have all the other ways they've ballsed up UK women with Austerity, housing, education, health, law and criminal justice system fuck ups.

You should try living under the SNP/Greens in Scotland or Labour in Wales. Health, criminal justice, education and housing are all devolved and much worse than England. May might have proposed Self ID but it was stopped by the Tories too. As for schools guidance - have you seen the labour and SNPs guidance?

Hurrydash · 01/11/2023 23:42

lechiffre55 · 01/11/2023 23:37

I understand that for some people that politics goes deep. Maybe from a family that has for generations voted the same way with pride. But what I really don't get is the denial.
If someone said to me "I care about women's rights, and I think although they were slow to wake up the Tories at least pretend to understand the clash between women's rights and TRA better than Labour, but I couldn't ever vote for the Tories." I would have no issue understanding that. But this attempt to lay all the blame at the Tories, especially with everything Labour has said. For instance misgendering to become a criminal offense punishable by 2 years in jail, is pure deliberate wilful denial. I cannot imagine what headspace someone must be living in to be that mentally tied up in knots.
There's a degree of cart before the horse illogic. Fair enough if you think that Labour are much better than the Tories, but when the Tories and Labour lay out their positions clearly on an issue, to they insist that the positions are swapped around is to attempt to deny the reality we can all see with our own eyes, to gaslight.
If you still prefer Labour to the Tories by the hugest of margins, that's fine, that's your right, your vote. But to say Labour are better on this one issue, when we can all see their positions is just ludicruos.

Thank you so much for your eloquence and clarity of thought.

lechiffre55 · 01/11/2023 23:37

I understand that for some people that politics goes deep. Maybe from a family that has for generations voted the same way with pride. But what I really don't get is the denial.
If someone said to me "I care about women's rights, and I think although they were slow to wake up the Tories at least pretend to understand the clash between women's rights and TRA better than Labour, but I couldn't ever vote for the Tories." I would have no issue understanding that. But this attempt to lay all the blame at the Tories, especially with everything Labour has said. For instance misgendering to become a criminal offense punishable by 2 years in jail, is pure deliberate wilful denial. I cannot imagine what headspace someone must be living in to be that mentally tied up in knots.
There's a degree of cart before the horse illogic. Fair enough if you think that Labour are much better than the Tories, but when the Tories and Labour lay out their positions clearly on an issue, to they insist that the positions are swapped around is to attempt to deny the reality we can all see with our own eyes, to gaslight.
If you still prefer Labour to the Tories by the hugest of margins, that's fine, that's your right, your vote. But to say Labour are better on this one issue, when we can all see their positions is just ludicruos.

OP posts:
Falzarega · 01/11/2023 23:13

Yes, although actually I prefer Rishi.

Conservatives are a shitshow but I do not want Labour’s policies.

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 22:19

SaffronSpice · 01/11/2023 21:04

It was Labour who started this shit show with the GRA and the mess that is the Equality Act with regard to sex.

If this didn’t happen none of the gender mess we see now would exist

Hurrydash · 01/11/2023 22:18

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 22:13

I don't support Labour policies. I don't support Labour. And I certainly don't support the Tories. I support Women's rights.

The Tories record on women's rights during the 13 years they have been in government is fucking offensive! And it includes the Trans shitshow. IIRC, Self ID was first proposed by PM May, the devolved regions followed. It was driven by Tory TRA ministers, MPs and donors. Many of them still active and powerful within the party. That's why they put Trans back in the Conversion Therapy Bill that caused panic a couple of weeks ago. That's why they won't issue the guidance schools need to keep children and staff safe.

No one was erasing women/girls or mother in 2010 and im pretty sure the Secretary of State for Education knew the definition of "Girl". 13 years under the Tories and calling a man a man, retweeting JKR or being in possession of a sticker can land a woman down the station. This trans shitshow happened Under Tory Eye. And they haven't finished yet.

On top of that you have all the other ways they've ballsed up UK women with Austerity, housing, education, health, law and criminal justice system fuck ups.

13 years of Conservative government wrecked women's rights and wrecked the country. They're a fucking disgrace.Angry

It's not about the past it's about the future.

Labour proposed policies are an abomination of women's and children's rights.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 22:13

I don't support Labour policies. I don't support Labour. And I certainly don't support the Tories. I support Women's rights.

The Tories record on women's rights during the 13 years they have been in government is fucking offensive! And it includes the Trans shitshow. IIRC, Self ID was first proposed by PM May, the devolved regions followed. It was driven by Tory TRA ministers, MPs and donors. Many of them still active and powerful within the party. That's why they put Trans back in the Conversion Therapy Bill that caused panic a couple of weeks ago. That's why they won't issue the guidance schools need to keep children and staff safe.

No one was erasing women/girls or mother in 2010 and im pretty sure the Secretary of State for Education knew the definition of "Girl". 13 years under the Tories and calling a man a man, retweeting JKR or being in possession of a sticker can land a woman down the station. This trans shitshow happened Under Tory Eye. And they haven't finished yet.

On top of that you have all the other ways they've ballsed up UK women with Austerity, housing, education, health, law and criminal justice system fuck ups.

13 years of Conservative government wrecked women's rights and wrecked the country. They're a fucking disgrace.Angry

SaffronSpice · 01/11/2023 21:04

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 20:47

@Hurrydash, it shouldn't be beyond your understanding because people repeatedly voted Tory after PM May first put Self ID on the table in 2017.

This whole trans shitshow happened under and because of the Tory party who've been in power since 2010.

Edited

It was Labour who started this shit show with the GRA and the mess that is the Equality Act with regard to sex.

SaffronSpice · 01/11/2023 21:03

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 20:03

Labour ditched Self ID a few months ago.

So why are they pushing it in Wales as we speak? Why did they vote for it in Scotland?

Hurrydash · 01/11/2023 20:57

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 20:47

@Hurrydash, it shouldn't be beyond your understanding because people repeatedly voted Tory after PM May first put Self ID on the table in 2017.

This whole trans shitshow happened under and because of the Tory party who've been in power since 2010.

Edited

So you support the Labour policies outlined by Saffronspice?

Good luck with that.

I don't care what Theresa May did.

I absolutely do not want these rules in our country.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 20:47

@Hurrydash, it shouldn't be beyond your understanding because people repeatedly voted Tory after PM May first put Self ID on the table in 2017.

This whole trans shitshow happened under and because of the Tory party who've been in power since 2010.

EasternStandard · 01/11/2023 20:14

Hurrydash · 01/11/2023 19:05

""Labour won’t do more of the same - they will allow self ID so the word ‘woman’ becomes meaningless. Women’s rights will no longer exist because women will no longer exist as a distinctive group from men. The word woman will also be removed from literature and anyone suggesting a man is not a woman would be liable for arrest for a hate crime. Labour would also make it illegal to do anything other than affirm a child’s belief that they are the opposite sex and give them harmful treatments. We know this because this is exactly what they are doing and what they are voting for NOW."

I get the Tories are awful. However I think this summary of Labour's approach to women's rights is both accurate and scary as hell.

How any woman - or msn for that matter - could bring themselves to vote for these things in our country is way beyond my understanding.

Same

AutumnCrow · 01/11/2023 20:12

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 20:03

Labour ditched Self ID a few months ago.

What about the pesky GRA? And the GRA ruling today in Scotland?

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/11/2023 20:03

Labour ditched Self ID a few months ago.

Hurrydash · 01/11/2023 19:05

""Labour won’t do more of the same - they will allow self ID so the word ‘woman’ becomes meaningless. Women’s rights will no longer exist because women will no longer exist as a distinctive group from men. The word woman will also be removed from literature and anyone suggesting a man is not a woman would be liable for arrest for a hate crime. Labour would also make it illegal to do anything other than affirm a child’s belief that they are the opposite sex and give them harmful treatments. We know this because this is exactly what they are doing and what they are voting for NOW."

I get the Tories are awful. However I think this summary of Labour's approach to women's rights is both accurate and scary as hell.

How any woman - or msn for that matter - could bring themselves to vote for these things in our country is way beyond my understanding.

SaffronSpice · 01/11/2023 18:20

And you haven’t told me what they would do on education, economics or the environment; though we know for starters then intend to remove planning restrictions that protect the environment, and push queer theory into schools.

SaffronSpice · 01/11/2023 18:14

RudolphTheRedNosedSpaniel · 01/11/2023 18:12

@SaffronSpice the Tories do NOT care about women's rights. Shame on anyone who votes for them.

Labour do not care about women’s rights, they are actively destroying them and criminalising anyone who objects.

RudolphTheRedNosedSpaniel · 01/11/2023 18:12

@SaffronSpice the Tories do NOT care about women's rights. Shame on anyone who votes for them.

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