Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?

I just filled it in. Nice to see most people have got the measure of her.

Although I actually felt a bit sorry for her with the blinking yesterday. She obviously was very uncomfortable at being sent out to justify the Conservatives position w.r.t Hester

If it was a choice between her and Mordaunt...?

Just reviving this thread rather than start another one.

I saw that today YouGov chat was asking "Do you think Kemi Badenoch would make a good PM?"

Was interesting that many seem to agree with her policies but actively disliked her, thought she would be a terrible PM - and many called her a liar.

You cant see the comments unless to do the survey (have to provide an email address) and the questions are a bit bland but it does ask about gender id.

https://www.yougov.chat/

(Although by the time most see this it will no longer be the top survey)

It’s allowed within international law to do as Germany proposes, but not in EU law if the person has no connection to the country

On the flip side a few countries may be able to choose that route, but many countries? I think it’ll be tricky, it’ll really change the set up generally

That's an interesting thought.

Let's say there is still all these people coming, and systems can't keep up, across Europe. So countries are going to start to push back, the political leaders won't be able to ignore it.

What happens if more and more start to come into conflict with the European courts and human rights legislation and policies?

When the rubber hits the road I don't think they will do what those bodies say if the political reality at home won't stand for it. The bodies will have to capitulate or the institutions themselves will become non-viable.

I think it’ll get more pronounced as systems strain

Maybe Germany has more sway with ECHR

I am not sure why anyone thought it wasn't going to happen. Like, what are they picturing in their mind's eye is happening in other places? Do they really believe their own story that it is only the abnormally racist people in the UK that think there are problems with mass immigration?

They're high on righteousness and enjoyment of misogyny.

Sad, but this really is the basis of it. These groups are men with a few women who got into positions of power by being very nice and helpful to men (Joanna Cherry and the one the Labour Party openly bully being the very few examples of ones who aren't and what happens to them for not being dick panderers) and are at core, misogynist, racist, sexist, homophobic and religious intolerant and absolutely bloody love being allowed to be and still claim the moral high ground. And virtue signal to each other about how fabulously open minded they are that what really matters in life is letting a man injure women in pursuit of his own inner happiness.

The entire political class need getting rid of. All of them. And then we need to work out how such utter muppets get into these positions of power and how to stop that and instead let people with actual capacity for rational thought and a grip on reality get there.

Goodness; the Welsh government has gone full SNP stupidity. What is wrong with these people? What is it they do not understand about sporting fairness and about safety?

Oh look, governing Labour politicians in Wales trying to destroy Women’s rugby….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-64825491

Immigration is interesting not least because I picked up on a German politician talking about alternative country asylum processing this morning on R4

I posted a while back post-War institutions and systems will start to strain. For the EU too.

Not sure how they’ll deal with ECHR

The debate about immigration is dishonest. All the talk of limiting it while having policies and enforcement that do the opposite. The government can change it, it just doesn't want to because there are costs to business. End.

It would be better if there was more honesty about immigration, benefits and costs. Instead we have a phony war on asylum seekers. Depressing

Only 1 party has had any power for the past 13 years. During this time immigration has soared. The Tories failed to manage immigration, just as they failed to manage the country.

Yes, neither party has actually done anything to reduce immigration.

But there does need to be a discussion around levels that are sustainable, and that can't happen because of the rhetoric on the left. It even makes it tricky to point out the right's failures, because the left doesn't really want to hold them to account in the system.

They fucked up education and housing.

I think it's probably both the Tories and Labour that fucked up housing.

Also the pressure from the left is that you're "racist" if you want immigration controls and immigration is one of the factors that puts more pressure on housing. Of course there can also be benefits to some immigration, but I doubt that either Labour or the Tories have planned sensibly, and the left has poisoned the debate.

https://fullfact.org/economy/who-built-more-council-houses-margaret-thatcher-or-new-labour/

This is coming from captured media, institutions and politicians

The left wing media is captured

Institutions similar

You get a few politicians crossing over but as a majority it divides along left = gender ideology

The massive issue for women is institutional capture which makes it incredibly hard for us to get change.

The media, luckily, is not ad bad as other countries but once that goes women are toast

Idk if we can get past institutional issues, including international law mentioned in pp, but Labour align with left wing media and institutions, which will make it very hard for women if they get in

Gender Identity has been push worldwide and I agree the Conservatives have let too much happen in the UK, but if you look at the voting record on this issue you will see they are the only party pushing back now.

Can anyone make an argument, that ideologically, this is coming from the right-wing?

The only thing I have seen suggested is that it's "men's rights activism". And maybe for some of the trans people involved it functions as a form of men's rights activism.

But as far as I know, there is no connection to right-wing ideology and conservative men would not be supportive of the trans-activist agenda.

"We're all just making the point that this one particular issue is not enough to sway our vote."

Er no. I can't stand the Tories but will be voting for them on this so called single issue - because as described in some of the posts it's actually way more than a single issue.

If Labour do a U- turn on the issue I'll vote for them. Not because I'm at all impressed by them but I do agree that - everything else equal - 13 years in power is long enough for any party.

https://labour.org.uk/missions/nhs/

Found the NHS policy here, btw.

Much of it sounds sensible - none of it is costed?

@Froodwithatowel

This is them in 'don't frighten the horses' mode.

I would suspect so. Maybe they will not go completely crazy when it comes to prisons and single sex exceptions. We will see.

Also Labour would need to pull out of the European Convention on Human Rights and not even the Tories have the balls for that. For Labour it would be unthinkable.

Gender Identity has been push worldwide and I agree the Conservatives have let too much happen in the UK, but if you look at the voting record on this issue you will see they are the only party pushing back now. Not just one MP; in Scotland Labour whipped their MSPs to vote for Self ID whereas nearly all the Conservative MSPs voted against it. The conservatives spotted the danger (or responded to voter concerns) on banning so called conversion therapies, whereas labour MSPs stand in front of Pride flags and say they will ban it (ie anything other than directing minor down the medical route for gender treatment) once they are in power.

More housing is crucial. But it's not going to fix the NHS, is it?

I'd like to hear the Labour-proposed solutions to some of the problems cited upthread. There's certainly plenty to be done. The last time I went to check their policies they were somewhat scant on information.

I am still amazed that anyone is thinking that the rise of GI in Britain can be nearly pinned to one party. It's been a raging problem in all of the parties, and all of them have had true believers and dissidents.

One loud party member who's finally been allowed to speak her mind on this because it's been identified as an electoral wedge issue does not in any way indicate that a future Tory government would be good for women's rights. The past 10+ years have been a shitshow on that front, so claiming that things will be different this time (honest, gov!) is quite a stretch.

Because I don't trust this government on women's rights, I will have to make my voting decision on a fuller set of factors than just whether Kemi has been allowed to speak on this. Stick that in your bingo card.

Demographic changes are difficult to do anything about, but I suspect Labour has more of a fighting chance of raising the birth rate simply because they are planning to build more housing.