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Original poster

Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?

768 replies

lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 13:39

Just curious to see what the answers here might be.
Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was the Tory party leader and the election was tomorrow?
Feel free to answer any way you like, and I don't care about derailing. The question is quite tongue in cheek, don't take it too seriously, and have fun with it if you want, rant if you want. I'm trying to get a picture of the MN mood.

OP posts:
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15
GrammarTeacher · 03/10/2023 17:48

The first word is European but it is not linked to the EU. It is separate. They are not the same. European does not equate with EU. We are European. We are no longer (sadly in my opinion) part of the EU.

MontyJames · 03/10/2023 17:43

@MadderthanMorris
Can I suggest dire poverty???

Spinet · 03/10/2023 17:43

lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 17:32

To the messages above. The European Court of Human Rights ( legal court ) is the final arbiter of legal matters brought under the European Convention of Human Rights ( a treaty ).

The Tories are not talking about leaving the treaty part, they are talking about leaving the court part. So the rights would stand, as already ensconced in UK law, only the final artbiter of any cases would not be the EU court.
But I think the convention call for the EU court to be the final arbiter, so it may not be possible to ditch the EU court while retaining the treaty.

Do I think this set of Tories would find a way to ensure the UK court ruled in their favour? Yes. Yes I do. So I think that we do need the ECHR as our constitution has never been formalised and depended on the decency of British government and their 'checks and balances'. This Tory government and its immediate predecessors have killed the idea of British decency and stomped on its limped corpse. So no I will never vote for them nor trust them again.

Original poster
lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 17:43

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/10/2023 17:42

The ECHR is not an EU court.

The first word stands for European.

OP posts:
Original poster
lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 17:42

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 03/10/2023 17:40

I’ll ask you again, what does the EU have to do with the ECHR?

Show quote history

It's a court, and based in Europe.
https://www.coe.int/en/web/tbilisi/europeancourtofhumanrights

The European Court of Human Rights - Council of Europe Office in Georgia - www.coe.int

https://www.coe.int/en/web/tbilisi/europeancourtofhumanrights

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 03/10/2023 17:42

The ECHR is not an EU court.

SaffronSpice · 03/10/2023 17:42

A tendency toward authoritarianism and the importance of obedience. Suppressing dissent and freedom of thought and expression.

This is much more prevalent on the left.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2023 17:42

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 03/10/2023 17:40

I’ll ask you again, what does the EU have to do with the ECHR?

Show quote history

Op just substitute EU court with ECHR and your points will stand without same question

MontyJames · 03/10/2023 17:41

Nope never would vote Tory and she as bad as the rest of them. She might protect our safe spaces but we won't have many left under her. Like public funded hostels, hospitals, refuges etc
Like most Tories, she has no soul.Not that any of the rest of the parties are much better.

IrresponsiblyCertainAboutSexualDimorphism · 03/10/2023 17:40

lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 17:32

To the messages above. The European Court of Human Rights ( legal court ) is the final arbiter of legal matters brought under the European Convention of Human Rights ( a treaty ).

The Tories are not talking about leaving the treaty part, they are talking about leaving the court part. So the rights would stand, as already ensconced in UK law, only the final artbiter of any cases would not be the EU court.
But I think the convention call for the EU court to be the final arbiter, so it may not be possible to ditch the EU court while retaining the treaty.

I’ll ask you again, what does the EU have to do with the ECHR?

MadderthanMorris · 03/10/2023 17:40

Wolfcub · 03/10/2023 17:32

Absolutely not she has terrible views on a lot of things which would be incredibly damaging to women and children. My vote has to be about more than a single issue

Wow. It seems so obvious when you put it that way.

OP posts:
Pinkglobelamp · 03/10/2023 17:37

Of course not. I'd never vote Tory. And particularly not for a Tory who wants to take us out of the ECHR and net zero commitments. Horrifying!

EasternStandard · 03/10/2023 17:37

I have noticed a tendency to do that you’re all thick part to undermine women. Probably with an agenda

The GRA is not guidance it’s legislation

EasternStandard · 03/10/2023 17:35

I don’t get the superiority. Seems unfounded.

I mean on that NZ post a quick google showed the mistake

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/10/2023 17:35

What EU Court @lechiffre55?Confused

ReverseFerret · 03/10/2023 17:34

I don't vote Tory

I'm not a cunt

Eskarina1 · 03/10/2023 17:34

I don't understand why people perceive Kemi as having broad appeal. She is as toxic hard right as it gets. There were Tories who might appeal to those with more liberal approaches (Rory Stewart before it turned out he thought black and gangster were synonymous) but I can't understand why she would be one.

bombastix · 03/10/2023 17:33

It's amazing to me that this is board about women's rights which is intimately tied up with the ECHR and the guarantees given and this is the level of knowledge,.

The conflation of sex and gender in the rights of women was done by guidance. Not operation of law.

It is properly written and scrutinised law that will solve this.

Not some half cocked ignorance about the ECHR being a problem. People who believe this stuff are either ignorant or not being candid about their intentions.

Skyellaskerry · 03/10/2023 17:33

No. But I don’t vote Tory anyway.

Mumof118 · 03/10/2023 17:32

Yes

Wolfcub · 03/10/2023 17:32

Absolutely not she has terrible views on a lot of things which would be incredibly damaging to women and children. My vote has to be about more than a single issue

Original poster
lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 17:32

To the messages above. The European Court of Human Rights ( legal court ) is the final arbiter of legal matters brought under the European Convention of Human Rights ( a treaty ).

The Tories are not talking about leaving the treaty part, they are talking about leaving the court part. So the rights would stand, as already ensconced in UK law, only the final artbiter of any cases would not be the EU court.
But I think the convention call for the EU court to be the final arbiter, so it may not be possible to ditch the EU court while retaining the treaty.

OP posts:
Slothtoes · 03/10/2023 17:31

No I can’t vote Tory because Badenoch and the Tories are still Tories. I am extremely grateful to her flushing this issue out into the media and into her party consciousness after it being sequestered to discussion on this board and a few other places for over a decade though.
I’m not a single issue voter until I see what Labour have to actually say on this. I can’t forgive the Tories for what they have done to this country over the past 13 years with Brexit, housing crisis, Covid mishandling, climate crisis, cost of living crisis, corrupt and incompetent government, Child poverty through the roof.

I believe we can have a decent government from a different party and still achieve change from a GC perspective. This is already happening across politics and media. Like with that Westminster Hall debate and more people coming out publicly to support GC views.

Spinet · 03/10/2023 17:28

lechiffre55 · 03/10/2023 17:05

So let me get this right.

the attack on the ECHR bothers me greatly. It was drafted by English lawyers to prevent the persecution of minorities by unfettered government power after WW2.

English lawyers drafted the European Convention on Human Rights, but UK politicians and UK courts are incapable of protecting human rights without the oversight of the EU courts? This seems to me to be contradictory?

Show quote history

It's not that the UK government is incapable of protecting human rights. It's that they don't want to. They want to change UK law so that it doesn't align with the ECHR. They have already gone against the UN on human rights with the Illegal Migrants Act.

Who drafted it 75+ years ago has no effect on what a government in 2023 does with it.