Would you vote Tory if Kemi Badenoch was Tory the party leader and the election was tomorrow?

It’s occurring now because we are noticing what’s going on.

Some politicians can hear that others refuse to listen

So long as they do not impinge on female rights (or anyone else's) they should not suffer discrimination.

What TRAs are arguing for, and getting, is access to female spaces

If it was just about being a different legal sex but no access women wouldn’t be in a clash over this

The problem as i see it is that there are genuine Trans people, locked into the wrong body, do they have no rights?
We used to believe in sterilisation and imprisonment of gays & not that long ago either.

So long as they do not impinge on female rights (or anyone else's) they should not suffer discrimination.

Yes of course rights are going down the toilet, funding has been slashed, that has consequences for us all.

but actually voting on one issue when all the rest is currently going to absolute shit?

The options as I see them, are absolute shit, (and I agree totally), or all the same absolute shit plus a whole lot worse shit, with women's rights and equalities, homosexual rights, religious freedoms, and disabled rights plus children's safeguarding going down the toilet as a starting point. And those are just the bits they dare say up front.

Believe me there is not one single party I want to vote for, it will be reluctantly hanging onto the least dodgy turd floating by.

I’m not seeing it either. Maybe for TRA but not for backlash which really is women led

Sunak didn't say how a hospital like my main District Hospital will be able to have enough wards and staff to implement any new guidelines, which is why they are guidelines and not laws.

He knows he wont or cannot fund the NHS to enable this, look at how much Govt borrowing has shot up recently?

Doubtful he will get rid of the GRA, too many in his own party support this act..

On schools, how he expects to give pupils an extra 190 hours of teaching plus make maths compulsory, when we don't have enough teachers is anyone's guess, i suspect he'll say what you want to hear but they'll be no action on changes to subject matter.

Its all been promised before :(

Your idea that they are blind to all that around them, but looking for subjects in the USA to leverage seems to me wishful thinking at best, or you searching for an explanation that fits your beliefs.

The idea that the Conservatives have lurched to the right is not wishful thinking and is evidenced by Braverman’s recent speeches about multiculturalism appearance at the NatCon conference, and conspiracy theories about 15 minute cities and meat taxes.

Again, they have been in power for 13 years. They have had plenty of time to notice what is going on.

Honestly, how do you think the current batch of Tories are going to cope with everything that isn't this one issue?

Do your opinions align with theirs on the handling of the economy, immigration, human rights, investment in infrastructure, what kinds of tax we have and who pays what, public transport, cars and roads, the environment, and education? And if your opinions do align, what have the tories done in the past 13 years that indicates the party is competent to achieve any of its promises apart from the ones that depend on individuals within it bending the rules to suit their own personal circumstances?

I can see the point of viewing everything through a particular lens, like the Women's Equality Party or the Greens do, but actually voting on one issue when all the rest is currently going to absolute shit? Where is the sense in that?

I suspect this reflects what very many women think and how they will vote.
BTW many men too.

They have mothers, wives, sisters, daughters....

Where is the getting their ideas from far right America stuff coming from?

The fact that the Conservatives only really noticed this topic when it became an issue for the far right in the US (not that there is a middle right in the Republican Party anymore) and that they are demonstrating their disdain for human rights generally now.

I’m just not seeing your posts reflected in what’s currently happening

Males are in single sex spaces

Merrymouse, how many people attended? How large was the venue?

We don't have anything approaching the American far right in the UK, in the USA

The National Conservatism Conference In May was attended by the Home Secretary and voiced many far right talking points about nationalism and birth rates.

There has always been a divide between people who are gender critical and believe sex is real (feminists), people who believe in gender boxes and believe sex is real and people who believe in gender boxes and that sex isn’t real.

Neither of the latter groups cares about women’s rights.

Rational persuasion - court cases, evidence given to sporting bodies, has meant progress in the UK. The other two groups dominate the US, and women’s rights there are in chaos.

Yes, I agree this is a risk

We don't have anything approaching the American far right in the UK, in the USA, the Tories would be left of centre, they're further left than the democrats. It is however a scare tactic being spoken a lot to try and stop women from fighting for their rights or anyone else supporting them.

And frankly, we've been pushed to this point by conscienceless, moral devoid extremists. It is going to take extremists from the other end to get the pendulum back to the middle, and then we can work out where to go next. But nice nice isn't going to make any difference now, gentle baby steps - yeah, about six years too late.

No. I would not vote conservative under any circumstances.

that say we have a right to live our lives and be recognised in line with our gender identity, and that it is not ok to treat us as our biological sex at birth all the time, as to do so greatly reduces our quality of life, our right to privacy, and our right to simply be recognised for who we are.

I know many people believe it so, but I don’t think there is any specific right to have a gender identity recognised.

Freedom of expression, right to privacy and right not to suffer undue discrimination are relevant, but those are all qualified rights.

Yes. Once given, no matter how blindly, stupid, ill informedly, they are HARD to retrieve. And these aren't legal 'rights', they are selected bits ignoring other bits, and snatched/encouraged breaches that are now seen as entitlements. The whole 'getting ahead of the law' plan was always to just do it, make it established and then work on the law validating it.

But what is missing from all this angsting and emoting is any capacity to see women as equally human or to take on board any of women's needs and issues. Which dismisses women's equality of access, women's inclusion, women's rights under multiple articles of the EHCR.

It is not all and only about TQ+ people, there are other people on the planet and they are all equally important, and their needs are equally included under law and legislation. Women are equal humans to TQ+ men, which lets face it is the group in question, not TQ+ people in general, and their needs and rights are incompatible with this male desire.

Women keep talking about 'middle ground' - it would be for male TQ+ people to accept that SOME facilities and resources can be 'women' but mixed sex and some must be respected as female only. But there is not the capacity to accept that. I don't think there will be from the hard core political group and they are the ones with the voices, the power, pushing for policy. And so like someone who has no capacity to respect that they can't mug you for your wallet, or steal your car, there has to be legal gatekeeping to define and protect other people's rights.

It took a grassroots movement of mainly women to start pushing back; and keep on pushing until it was finally taken up in parliament and in the media.

I’m concerned that the Conservatives are getting their lines from American far right populists, not women. They are not interested in feminist lawyers patiently explaining human rights legislation and fighting and winning cases. If they were we wouldn’t have had so many years of Miller and Mordaunt pushing self ID and calling women raising concerns ‘so called feminists’. However I think it’s those feminist lawyers who are responsible for progress on this issue in the UK.

When Lee Anderson talks about why he, a man, doesn’t want to meet Eddie Izzard in the toilets in Parliament it’s clear that he doesn’t understand the issue, but the party is following his lead.

Rishi Sunak at the Tory conference has just stood up and said men are men, women are women, people need to know what their children are being taught in schools and the NHS needs to be clear about which sex people are.

If in the next few months he and Kemi implement policy changes and announce an intention to abolish the GRA and strengthen the Equality Act to make it clear that sex=chromosomes and not feelings, then I'll give the Tories my vote — because they have listened and they deserve it and Labour have just pissed away my many years of support in order to virtue signal.

Looking up stuff and found this in reaction to the proposed biological sex definition

I don’t see how privacy part gives men what they want which is this, entry into female spaces

‘It is not a new idea or novel suggestion to try and insist that trans people should be treated in line with our biological sex at birth by services, public bodies, and when we participate in public life.

And courts knew it didn’t work – not only that it didn’t work, but that it breached our human rights or meant that we faced discrimination. So many of the legal rights we have today come directly from court judgements – that say we have a right to live our lives and be recognised in line with our gender identity, and that it is not ok to treat us as our biological sex at birth all the time, as to do so greatly reduces our quality of life, our right to privacy, and our right to simply be recognised for who we are.’

This is what they think is happening

‘it clearly breaches Europe-wide equality law. It is also incompatible with the international UN gender equality treaty (the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women) which the UK has signed up to, and which is clear that gender equality is wider than just “biological sex”. It may also breach the European Convention on Human Rights, which the UK is still a signatory to’

I’d be interested to see what challenge would be brought if we were to Repeal the GRA

I mean I’m all for it but these rights they feel they have, once given are hard to change

That's not what happened with Queer Theory, though ( in its guise of 'gender identity theory')It was being covertly pushed by the whole of the establishment and nobody was even permitted to question it, let alone debate it.

It took a grassroots movement of mainly women to start pushing back; and keep on pushing until it was finally taken up in parliament and in the media.

It was incredibly toxic long before the media got wind of it.

To answer the original OP, I think for me this has to be a short term single issue vote. Unless the threats to women’s rights, the imposition of wrong think, the Orwellian need to pretend black is white and the threats to free speech are course corrected as soon as possible and by any means necessary, then we are opening up our society to a much larger longer term issue.

It has already gone so very far and pulling it back now has proven so very difficult that it is not time yet to take our eyes off the ball. To abandon mid stream after so much hard work and let it become further entrenched under is unthinkable.