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Trans women to be banned from female hospital wards

407 replies

Imnobody4 · 02/10/2023 22:41

Yes¡ Just done a little victory dance. I hope it really is as good as it sounds.

https://twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1708956051683295391?t=daMUSC8mbF_9sSi9ynIsIg&s=19

On Tuesday, Steve Barclay will announce proposals to push back against “wokery” in the health service that has led to women’s rights being increasingly sidelined.The changes would give men and women the right to be cared for on wards only shared by people of their own biological sex, and to have intimate care provided by those of the same sex.Mr Barclay said the plan would mean the return of “a common-sense approach to sex and equality”, ensuring that women’s dignity was protected and their voices heard.The proposals follow concerns from patients and staff about biological men being allowed on to women’s hospital wards. In 2021, NHS guidance said trans patients could be placed on single-sex wards on the basis of the gender with which they identified.

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15
Intelligenthair · 03/10/2023 00:42

I really hope this is common sense returning. Please please please.

Thelnebriati · 03/10/2023 00:35

If you think that rape is the only bad thing that can happen to a woman in a mixed sex ward, you haven't been in that position yourself.

Caffeinequeen91 · 03/10/2023 00:33

@jlpth yes I see this as a possible problem for the small percentage of M to F who have had their penis removed. I celebrate genuine single sex wards so I presume and hope there would be safeguards in the male ward for males who have had surgery to appear as females? I personally wouldn’t have an issue with a transwoman without a penis being on a female ward but the issue is bigger than my personal opinion and feelings, if you see what I mean. It’s not for females to move over and make room for males who have chosen to have elective surgery to appear a certain way, is it? The protection of such trans women is a separate issue.

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 03/10/2023 00:33

He is male and would cause me, and other women huge distress.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 03/10/2023 00:33

@jlpth

yeah yeah the poor man, that took a long time, as far as page two.

Sarah Jane Baker, the punch a TERF in the face advocate has had full genital reassignment surgery. Would you like your 70 year old Mum , or your 19 year old daughter, or even yourself, to wake up from surgery and find Sarah Jane giving you the hard eye from the next bed?

jlpth · 03/10/2023 00:24

I do feel sorry for someone I know, who is M to F trans and has had bottom surgery (ie has no penis) and additionally has had surgery to get boobs. Although born male, she would pose no risk to women/girls. On a male ward, she could easily be gawped at/worse as she has boobs and all the bottom surgery.

it’s a difficult problem, but there definitely should not be anyone capable of rape (ie who has a penis) on a women’s ward.

TheShellBeach · 03/10/2023 00:23

Hopefully this is the beginning of common sense returning.

bombastix · 03/10/2023 00:19

Watch with interest. Governments revise guidance when there are legal risks. And this would be a single sex space.

As it should be; but interesting

IdleAnimations · 03/10/2023 00:18

Before we all dance too much:

1 . It took a woman being raped for this to even be spoken about. The woman was gaslit for a year as NHS staff told police she couldn’t have been raped as ‘no men on the ward’ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/
2 . This is a proposal not a policy. This all happened under the Tories watch and now they want to be the hero’s when their own such as Noakes put women and children in the line of fire.

Labour won’t be better at all, no other party will for that matter. But I shall not forget what has happened under the Tories watch, they should apologise profusely to those who have been harmed by their inaction to deal with this vile ideology.

Hospital told police patient was not raped because alleged attacker was transgender

Assault was confirmed through CCTV and witnesses despite previous denials, Lords told, as debate on single-sex wards policy continues

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 02/10/2023 23:42

Ah - it all seems to be based on regulation 10 here (which is exceedingly general - so the policy doesn’t actually have underpinning legislation specifically about single-sex provision) www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/2936/regulation/10/made

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 02/10/2023 23:35

bombastix · 02/10/2023 23:20

Well it's interesting. It suggests that, if there was a judicial review, the guidance did not match the underlying law. So the guidance is unlawful? Interesting because the two, legislation informing guidance, must match. Suggests government Legal position has changed. You just haven't seen that yet.

Show quote history

I've had no luck digging out the original 2009 legislation (NHS docs of that age are archived) but the problem goes back much firther than the 2021 guidance mentioned in the article (not quite sure what the 2021 one is, cant see a link). The 2019 guidance Annex B was explicitly a problem www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/NEW-Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

But even the original 2010 document repeatedly mixed up 'sex' and 'gender' https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eliminating-mixed-sex-accommodation

[Withdrawn] Eliminating mixed sex accommodation in hospitals

Update for NHS trusts on dealing with breaches of the policy on eliminating mixed sex accommodation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eliminating-mixed-sex-accommodation

arcadiamadia · 02/10/2023 23:32

This is brilliant. Baroness Nicholson is my heroine.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 02/10/2023 23:25

Brilliant news. Fingers crossed it actually happens.

caringcarer · 02/10/2023 23:24

They should never have been in female wards in the first place.

bombastix · 02/10/2023 23:20

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 02/10/2023 23:13

If they really are repealling Annex B, that's good news. But I'll believe it when I see it officially written down in legislation (not just non-binding guidance).

Well it's interesting. It suggests that, if there was a judicial review, the guidance did not match the underlying law. So the guidance is unlawful? Interesting because the two, legislation informing guidance, must match. Suggests government Legal position has changed. You just haven't seen that yet.

SecondClassReturnToDottinghamPlease · 02/10/2023 23:16

I hope this is true 🙏

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 02/10/2023 23:16

I'm going to throw caution to the wind and go with a wholehearted YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

TheCentreSlide · 02/10/2023 23:16

Wow this is incredible news!!

Rainbowshit · 02/10/2023 23:15

I'm soooo relieved to hear this!!! 👏 👏

bombastix · 02/10/2023 23:14

Okay I do not like the Tories but they seem to be correcting a mess on their watch. Good. Hope it happens and isn't just announced.

Signalbox · 02/10/2023 23:13

https://archive.ph/WcyRw

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 02/10/2023 23:13

If they really are repealling Annex B, that's good news. But I'll believe it when I see it officially written down in legislation (not just non-binding guidance).

YesshesaidyesiwillYes · 02/10/2023 23:11

Thank goodness.

HappyLittleLentil · 02/10/2023 23:09

I feel the same as @AlisonDonut . Make it happen before I start celebrating.

I trust less and less these days.

AlisonDonut · 02/10/2023 23:04

I'll believe it when I see it.

They will find some workaround.