Trans women to be banned from female hospital wards

And hey, fancy a single room, rather than a shared ward?

Just say you’re non-binary…. 🙄

The NHS making use if the separate fields for 'sex' and 'gender identity' would be a start. I believe there is the option but it's not used.

How are you going to decide if someone is male or female? Check which marker is on their medical records? They can be changed. Check birth certificate? They can be changed.

The GRA needs repealing

Yep. Many pennies may suddenly drop.

As noted above, if a male bodied person is desperate to avoid being in a men's ward there are side rooms available for exactly this sort of issue.

Women and women's bodies are not a resource the NHS is obliged to dish out on request to males who really really want to be near them.

I really hope this is true

I really think that once people in society realise that adding boobs and removing cocks doesn’t make a male a woman the better it will be. Women’s and girl’s bodies are not Potato heads.

There has been this false perception that removal of a penis means that a male becomes harmless. This is not true. Just like there is this bizarre perception that these male people worked so hard to be a woman that they deserve to be treated as special.

It is purely based on emotive reasoning. Some people feel the need to protect these male people. Or to be ‘compassionate’. While forgetting that compassion does not go all one direction in these situations. Female people need compassion too.

But no. We continue to see people constantly arguing for special considerations for male people who opt to have their cocks chopped off and likely inverted to create a false cavity in their pelvis and their testicles chopped off too as some kind of very special person. One who miraculously loses their male propensity to commit violent and sexual crimes.

As with other posters I will wait until there's something concrete to celebrate.

Anyone can propose anything they like, it doesn't mean anything will change.

All the reporting on this down our way is using the word ‘gender’, not ‘sex’.

So I am not getting too excited about this. If wards are to be same gender, that’s absolutely meaningless. Since people with penises can say they’re women and then be put on women’s wards.

I’d like to think it’s a move in the right direction, but I’ll reserve judgment.

There is definitely nuance needed in a handful of cases. (Which let’s face it, may be more than a “handful” if the world keeps going on its trajectory.)

I wouldn’t be comfortable on a ward with a TM who had a penis. Using single side rooms seems like a solution on the surface but would need to be managed appropriately in reality as these are often used where there is an additional medical need including for infection control.

It’s a shame that a standard NHS ward doesn’t offer much privacy and dignity, and doesn’t provide a great deal of personal safety.

Another interesting headline here.

Apologies, I don’t subscribe to The Times at the moment, so can’t click on the article, does anyone have a subscription?

Would a 13 year old with a cervix be safe going into a men’s ward?

A pregnant 18 year old in a men’s mental health unit?

A nan of six in a men’s rehab clinic?

We desperately want people to be safe and to get great healthcare but we can’t start from the lie that people can change sex or that sex doesn’t matter.

So the comfort and distress of males with boobs is more of a priority than the comfort and distress of the females who have to share a space with them.

Just so we're clear on where things stand.

This is great news. I hope its comes into force immediately. Tragic it took rapes to get here though.

Imo things like this should be a condition of transition. In that anyone transitioning should be told from the very beginning that no one is obligated to validate them im any way shape or form and they are to abide by the same rules and social contracts as anyone else.

So go ahead present how you want. But the hospital wards and the patients in them are not participants in your identity.

Let's see how many actually bother once forced to comply with sex based rules, laws etc

I dont t think they have a hope of an actual “ban”. Consultation first, then drafting guidance, repealing article 9 etc

what they are doing though is bringing more sunlight to the issue. The majority of ppl in this country will almost certainly not know hospitals write guidance for staff inspired by stonewall training telling them that legally they have to put TW on women’s wards when they have to do no such thing.

Extreme body modification decisions still do not mean that this male person should access female single sex spaces. But I think you realise this.

There does seem to be a lack of understanding though, about the needs of women and girls. Have you thought about how rarely male people are not detected as male. Sometimes instantly, sometimes it takes longer. So, putting them into a female bay means that women and girls can be re-traumatised or be distressed by the lack of privacy.

The solution was never to put those male people into a female space. As others pointed out, which other vulnerable male people should be protected by being put into the female space? None. They are out into areas where they are more protected.

Once you start to unravel the emotive reaction that seems to be associated with a male who has had their cock and balls removed and have breast development, it becomes clear that they are still male. By the exact same logic, all the people who have other extreme body modifications should be treated similarly. The men who are cats, lizards and snakes should be put where, in zoos! I mean no one would go to all that trouble to appear as a snake complete with a forked tongue if they weren’t a snake.

This is how the logic would be used in directly comparative examples. So the answer is to appropriately safeguard those patients as happens with other vulnerable patients.

Society in general needs to stop treating women as being just boobs, an orifice for a penis and a feeling. Having boobs and no cock is no reason to put a male into a female single sex space.

I had a similar thought about party conference season, Warrior. Do Labour respond to these announcements or ignore them? They'll be under pressure to say they will go against them if elected.

It occurs to me that if a big fuss is made of this by TRAs it will only highlight it more to the public who aren't aware of what being trans often actually means in real terms.

It's been going on since 2006!!!

Filth and shame in an NHS hospital

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ba61a3d6-73d5-47d3-ba69-571419ff92e5?shareToken=2abb64dc20107bf2a82a5d1680df5b7e

Interesting because the two, legislation informing guidance, must match.

If your guidance doesn't match your legislation, that's transguidance.

Nope. That’s a man.

Well I am pleased to see that the word woman has been inserted back onto various NHS advice pages. They haven’t changed much - most of it is in the recent styles, so still aimed at “you” and saying “anyone who has ovaries” but the word women, essential for understanding the demographic these illnesses affect, is there, right at the top:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ovarian-cancer/

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/menopause/

Though they haven’t got round to changing them all yet. Something to watch, perhaps.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/pelvic-organ-prolapse/

He will use his speech to the Conservative Party conference in Manchester on Tuesday to announce a consultation on changes to the NHS constitution.

"Consultation" 😒

I'm not getting my hopes up about this to be honest.

Oh right. So impotent men, maybe disabled men. Men who have penile cancer and had their penis removed. Do all those go on the female ward?

If a man who professes discomfort if placed on a ward corresponding to his sex, they need to sort out that accommodation appropriately. I don't think placing him in a women's ward is the solution. I extend my concern and sympathy to any woman/women made uncomfortable by plonking a man in the women's ward. Irrespective of any body modifications he may have had.

The very small number of people this applies to can be accommodated in individual rooms. They aready have this option under current guidance, if they want it. Annex B lets them choose the ward for their sex, or the ward for their stated gender, or a side room.

This is a proposal not a policy.

Specifically, a proposal for a consultation. Actual change is some way off.

Thank you @IdleAnimations for linking to the story i immediately thought about when I saw this post. Rape is bad enough but to be told you can't have been raped because the rapist was a 'woman' is the lowest point of wokery yet.