Trans women to be banned from female hospital wards

LInk to the BBC article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66994133

It's front and centre on the BBC landing page, too.

Excellent sunlight.

How many people might be twigging what 'TWAW' actually involves, now?

And this is where the wangling will start.

Oh but what about THIS male?
And THAT male?
And oh sad for THOSE males?

No. All their needs can be met without putting them on women's wards. There is no need or situation that should ever mean putting a male on women's wards. 'Karen' White has recently said (serving a life sentence for multiple serial sex offenses, in one case multiply raping a woman all night on the women's mental health ward he'd identified into) that no male without a penis should be in a women's space.

Does anyone really think White without a penis would be any less awful to be feeling very unwell next to, possibly immobile or semi conscious, half dressed, possibly using bed pans, a couple of feet away from with just a screen some of the time between you and him? Does anyone think removing his penis would have that much of an effect on his capacity to sexually offend and severely injure a woman? How many women are ok to see harmed while we try this out and hold another consultation, just to check that there really, really really IS the evidence to say no to male people that they cannot have access to non consenting females in a state of undress?

Sometimes I don't honestly believe I'm really living in these times.

What are you thinking?

Repeal the GRA or something else?

This has only surfaced in a major way recently, eg Isla Bryson.

Politicians change when people demand it, so keep telling them you do want change and don’t let Starmer fob you off with no one’s talking about it. If he won’t listen, no vote it’s the only thing that sticks

Bbc saying MAY be

If you deliberately have cosmetic surgery this doesn't make you female. You still retain certain physical features that women may find distressing.

It's not for women to budge up and accommodate men.

The solution MUST be to provide third spaces in these situations.

HOWEVER the biggest issue we see is the failure to adhere to targets to eliminate mixed sex wards in the first place. They still remain far too common. Particularly for mental health.

And that's the danger for me - female only wards will be eroded further because of this.

This must be accompanied by a commitment to end mixed sex wards too.

@EasternStandard and they’ve had plenty of time before now to identify issues with the GRA if they had wanted to

We are where we are due to the 2004 GRA

It legislated for all this to happen

I agree with this @nauticant
Where we are now has been on 13 years Tory govt.

they are electioneering pure and simple, they know public opinion and will use these sorts of issues at every single opportunity they can, increasingly as the next election draws near, in my view.
They see the Lib Dems and greens even worse, and talk of any sort of Labour coalition will just fire up the Tories even more. Labour doesn’t seem to have paid much attention to those women saying they could no longer vote for them because of this issue, until quite recently when it appears they may be listening more, but are they to be trusted who knows, I’m not sure I do.

If being trans exists, as a state of being, then anyone who calls themself 'trans' is trans.

They're just not the opposite sex.

Was just about to say this. It's easy for the Tories to talk the talk - let's save the victory dance until they actually do something. Don't forget we are where we are under the Tory watch.

This clip at the beginning is pretty strong support from a Tory:

TM always only ever mentioned in passing when it's useful to try and stop women resisting male people in personal, vulnerable spaces.

I honestly don't care what provision is made for TQ people, as there will be a whole range of genders and identities in there - I'm sure arrangements will be made that provide them with privacy and dignity and work for them.

But I don't know how you heard 'no men of any identity to be permitted on women's wards (following at least one rape and a lot of distress)' and heard 'everyone forced onto the wards of their sex omg women will have to cope with women with beards'. Always that attempted gotcha of 'if you resist the man who identifies as a woman in the next bed while you have your catheter inserted and try not to die of humiliation and anxiety at his spectating, then you'll have to deal with female people who look outwardly like men and then you'll be sorry.'

No. Seriously not. They are female. And they usually manage to care about the feelings and needs of other females: something totally missing from the population sharing views with India Willoughby.

It should be up to TQ+ people as to what third spaces fit their needs: they just cannot be provided with non consenting women. And if you're delighted to get your kit off in front of random males no one's stopping you either. You just don't get to gift wrap and hand over other women to demonstrate your virtue, because apparently you lack any capacity to understand that some women's life experiences and situations are different to yours and female people's needs and feelings are equal to those of a male.

I hear you. Many of us have tried to find this mythical middle ground, over the years.

Eventually we have found that the idea there is a 'middle ground' in which 'good' men are allowed to access women's spaces, but 'bad' men are forbidden is exactly the problem.

Identifying as a woman and respecting women are very different concepts.

Seriously, what is wrong with you? I agreed that I don't think tw should be in women's hospitals wards (i also dont think that male personal care nurses should be there either, but heyho), I just said I personally wouldn't mind. I also said I didn't think womens rights should be pushed aside. Stop being so angry and read what I actually said, I am on your side here. I just think there is a middle ground and it isn't up to women to find it.

India's spiteful jealousy drips from every word.

Amen to that 😍

You can add my dad, my cousin and my bestie to the list. Lovely men, all – but none of them belong on the women's ward.

India Willoughby absolutely HATES women, it permeates everything they say, they particularly seem to despise older women.
Probably because they know they will never be one. You hate what you cannot have.

I've no doubt they are pouring over this thread as they seem to have an alert on any thread where their name is mentioned.
Yes India, you don't belong on a female hospital ward.

(awaits the previously posted picture of India with a hospital wrist band on saying "female". I can put a name badge on saying I am a brain surgeon, it doesn't make it true dear).

The Trust that lied to the police and victim, saying the patient cannot have been raped because there wasnt a man on the ward, needs to be prosecuted and heavily fined. It needed to be headline news.

While theres no consequences for carrying on with the lie, nothing will change.

Christ almighty. India on Baron Nicholson:

'old banger, who in her final years, has found an acceptable vehicle for her last salvos of hate and bigotry, before her guaranteed descent to hell'

Unfortunately the TRAs will mobilise and bombard the consultation giving a false impression of what the public wants

Men do not belong in women's wards, full stop.
I don't care if they have had their penis amputated or not, they are still men.
As someone upthread said, does that mean that men with penectomies due to cancer, or men whose penis is effectively "useless" anyway because of impotence etc, can all be placed on the female ward? It's a ridiculous suggestion.

The problem is not the penis.
The problem is that it is a man, and remains a man despite whatever surgeries they may or may not have had.

What about certain religious/orthodox women who cannot share spaces with men? Are their voices worth nothing just to appease the feelings of a man who, for some reason, wants to get closer to women in a vulnerable state?
I don't care how he feels to be honest, I care about the ill women in hospital who deserves to feel safe and keep her dignity and privacy intact.

Let trans women campaign for another ward, it's not women's jobs to budge over and allow trans women into every area of their lives and safe spaces.
While they're at it they can campaign for their own sports leagues, changing rooms, prison wings and refuges.
They do not belong in the women's ones.

The excuse of "culture war" is a technique to argue that nothing should be done. It's the same as stating things are "popularist" or "far-right", it's an excuse to argue against when people don't have any valid arguments.

It’s coming up more now because men become more emboldened each year.

And more and more people, of both sexes, are waking up to the fact that the majority of transwomen don't have surgery. For many transwomen growing their hair long, slapping on make up and wearing a pretty dress seems to be enough to make them women,. I would say that the vast majority of us don't agree, but we are not allowed to speak out, or we will be called transphobes.