Trans Kids Demographics

UsefulChocReindeer

Yes. I agree. In my group of friends with children with trans identities, you have described most of them and their children’s diversity. Except for the ‘white’ category.

Our children mostly fall in the ASD or neuro diverse group. That's our common factor.

If it's of any interest, we're not in London (Home Counties) and we parents are all over 40, mothers and fathers.

Oh I'm not doubting your assertion that such parents exist. I'm just stating that from my mostly white, middle class, professional, tertiary educated, traditionally left wing, environmentally conscious, community volunteering, charity donating, do-gooder, etc etc bubble - my circle disagrees with gender theory. Just my experience.

(Do we fall under the term of "social justice"? that's just not a term I personally would use.)

As Hellofabore says, our main concerns are the mental welfare of our children and side & long term effects of medical transitioning.

Maybe tokyo it is the ‘social justice as a core part of their identity’ that really makes a difference in the people you know. I suspect it also depends on the issues that they are focusing their attention on as well.

I also don’t know any parent with a child that has a trans identity that is ‘celebrating’ that identity. They are all hugely concerned about their children’s mental health and as they approach 17 or 18, whether their child will start medical processes outside of the mental health therapy they receive.

@Jellycats4life it was only when I actually had a boyfriend that I discovered what all those weird body parts were for and that they were actually amazing.

OK so he was a weird creepy groomer and I didn't have another relationship for 10 years but I had absolutely no idea I was sexual for ages.

There will be a difference in who makes it into the figures. I think children who already have social workers, CAMHS, mental health disorders will have their identities recognised medically. These are also the kids who are most vulnerable to the real problems.

However, at my DCs primary school, only one of seven had approached anyone official for puberty blockers or support (of the "look how cool we are" variety of parents). One clearly hated growing boobs. The other 5 were attention seeking PITA, who loved catching people out using wrong pronouns. No distress at being misgendered, total glee at the drama of it. These kids are unlikely to persist to adulthood, I'd have thought and unlikely to be going to a GIC but very likely to tell anyone who'll listen how long the waiting lists are and the injustice of it all.

Unless there are terms to differentiate those who are latching on to this as a sort of trauma response (at homophobia, ASD feeling of not fitting in, puberty coming early, sexual harassment etc) and those who are shouting the loudest but not actually suffering, it's going to be hard to understand the bigger picture or to help anyone appropriately.

Yep.

I was an awkward nerdy teen, totally uninterested in hair, make up and - most of all - boys. I refused to wear skirts or otherwise show my legs for years and years.

If I could have explained away my utter disinterest in sex and relationships by saying I was trans or NB, I would have jumped at it. I knew I was different. I thought it was because I was a smart kid in a sink comprehensive. It wasn’t that.

Now I’m parenting autistic kids it breaks my heart when I see parents posting in support groups about what to do about their girls who identify as boys. I keep trying to gently plant the seed that gender non-conformity is so common in autism (due to sensory and social-communication issues) and NOT a question of autistic people being innately more likely to be “queer” or trans.

The problem is, all autism orgs seem to have been captured, and peddle the myth that autistic people are more like to be special glitter rainbow people.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but Hannah Barnes book could be a good source of data. She mentions children from various backgrounds as being prominent such as ADS, incare, etc

see these reviews from a thread with her name:
This review by Sarah Ditum is excellent and very moving:

unherd.com/2023/02/the-tragedy-of-becoming-a-woman/

Another good one from Suzanne Moore:

suzannemoore.substack.com/p/a-review-of-time-to-think-the-book

Equally, I read somewhere that incare and native Americans are prevalent in the latest cohorts.

Of all the trans kids i know, none of the parents think it's a positive thing that their child is transitioning.

I've yet to meet a parent who considers their child, so unhappy in their bodies and with themselves that they would medicate and try to change themselves, to be making the right choice. Of the parents I know, we are all supporting our kids even though we disagree with gender theory - whether by using pronouns and new names, paying for private therapy or in some cases funding private hormone treatment even though the parents think it's detrimental to their child's health.

We would prefer therapy (not "conversion therapy" to talk them out of being gay/ lesbian) to address the roots of their unhappiness (often ASD in the kids i know).

I don't know this idea of "socal status" you're talking about - what we parents mostly feel is intense unhappiness and impotence that our kids are so unhappy and have bought into this cult. There are no bragging rights in the circles I know (of trans-parents and parents who are 100% sympathetic and agree with us). No one I know in real life believes that transitioning is the right choice for any child/ young adult.

I agree with this, motivations may be slightly different as well, one group trying to escape from oppression, the other identifying into their own definition of oppression.

I think it's more likely that amongst communities where gender roles are rigid, homosexual children are unlikely to be welcomed. However, if they're prepared to jump from one gender role 'box' to another, the idea of rigid gender roles isn't being challenged and the children may be accepted in their 'new' gender.

If the community is also tolerant of gendered violence (emotional, physical, sexual) there will also be a higher number of girls seeking to identify out of abuse.

TokyoGhoul there seems to be a difference between the kids most likely to express their "trans identity" by superficial means of hair style, clothing, etc. and those who are being medicalised.

"An open letter to Dr Polly Carmichael from a former GIDS clinician"
2019 - Leeds

"I was also shocked by the complexity of referrals. I read many referrals of children who have been sexually abused and many children have witnessed and/or been subjected to domestic violence.

I also felt that was an overrepresentation of the young people who were living in poverty. I had a young person whose family were living within such extreme financial constraints that he considered it a treat to buy a can of pop. I also had another young person who was living in a very complex and unstable arrangement who arrived to sessions in a poor state of hygiene and said that there wasn’t money for hygiene products. How is it ethical to undertake a gender identity assessment with the view to a medical pathway when there are children and young people do not have their most basic needs met?

In terms of complexity I also had on my caseload several young people who declined to communicate verbally or communicated verbally to a very limited extent. I think that at GIDS verbal communication difficulties are often minimised as transmales being afraid to speak because they have a ‘feminine voice’ but in all of these cases I believe that there was something more complex than that going on. Again, it’s very difficult to undertake a gender identity assessment with a young person who struggles to communicate verbally, especially within the time constraints of the service."

https://medium.com/@kirstyentwistle/an-open-letter-to-dr-polly-carmichael-from-a-former-gids-clinician-53c541276b8d

Archived: https://archive.ph/k5vdd

The situation in Canada is the same, although there is also a high proportion of indigenous children being transitioned as they are over-represented in the Foster care system:

"Petition to the Government of Canada"
July 2020

There is enormous evidence suggesting psychologically and emotionally vulnerable children are identifying as transgender at enormously disproportionate rates;

Recent information suggests that Foster children are identifying as transgender at rates 15 to 20 times higher than children not in government care;

Full info:
https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-2443

"“Gender therapy” doctor admits to advising kids to fake being suicidal to get transgender “treatments”
April 2019

"Dr. Wallace Wong…is facing calls for an inquiry into the conduct of his practice. On February 28…Wong spoke at an event hosted by Vancouver Public Library. In a tape of the event obtained by Canadian pro-family group Culture Guard, Wong is heard proudly describing the scope of his children-only “gender therapy” practice, noting that his youngest client is not yet three years old and that he has 501 orphans and foster kids in his local practice.

If true, this indicates Wong has likely used his relationship with the BC Ministry of Children and Family to diagnose more than 10 to 20 percent of local children in government care as needing his “gender therapy,” according to Culture Guard President Kari Simpson.

In Wong’s own words, his practice began in 2010 with just “four clients at the ministry” but in the course of nine years, there was such an enormous surge of need within that population that he now has “more than 500 kids, [with] just the Ministry alone…. So we can imagine the demand of service is soaring…. The phenomenon is happening a lot faster than – than we expected.”

Simpson expressed outrage at this “soaring” demand, claiming Wong was “gender-jacking” vulnerable children from the Ministry and “profiting” handsomely into the bargain.

Wong also had some startling advice for a parent seeking to get a child referred to his program. Although the questioner had not indicated any particular urgency, Wong explained that parents should exaggerate the severity of their child’s condition to their local health offices.

Wong said a suicide threat was an effective means of accomplishing this goal. While Wong framed the matter as the government’s fault and explained to his audience that it is “up to us as advocates” to change the situation, his message could not have been lost on anyone present.

“So what you need is, you know what? Pull a stunt. Suicide, every time, [then] they will give you what you need,” Wong said, adding that gender-dysphoric kids “learn that. They learn it very fast.”

Full article:
https://thebridgehead.ca/2019/04/22/gender-therapy-doctor-admits-to-advising-kids-to-fake-being-suicidal-to-get-transgender-treatments/

In the USA there is a gleaming temple to trans surgery in a Detroit ghetto where they are taking kids off the streets and churning out the icons of the most oppressed: black transwomen.

"Chris Rufo’s new exposé links “transgender empire” back to large-scale medical experiments in a Detroit ghetto"

"Chris explains how over the years, some of the wealthiest people in America have heavily funded the trans movement. But one of the most disturbing elements in Chris’s mini-film involves the medical experiments conducted in a Detroit ghetto, specifically at a place called “The Ruth Ellis Center.” This center is considered the epicenter for transgender “science,” . . ."

https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-07-14-chris-rufos-expose-transgender-empire-medical-experiments.html

As irritating and high profile as the screaming, protesting, middle-class trans activist university students are, it is children living in poverty, vulnerable children, traumatised children, children in care, children with autism and learning difficulties and "proto-gay/lesbian" children the world over who are being medicalised. In Canada and the UK, the tax-payer stumps the bill. In the USA, billionaire philanthropists build and staff clinics and health insurance pays out vast sums per patient when they don't also fund the experimental treatments themselves.

Also I think the Tavistock clinic report had a striking rise in teenage girls being referred.

Firstly I think we have a problem with the data, I saw that the ONS has been criticised for inaccuracy over this.

And for example I listen to a programme about the amount of trans gender people in prisons, it said that this was difficult as on entry a man could say he was a woman, or trans woman, and it would be recorded solely as female sex rather than male biological sex with trans gender.

So that’s a mess.

And another part is that surveys or other reports had selection bias, self selecting people taking part.

The report into the Tavistock Clinic showed some data about those referred, and I think 30% were autistic and high numbers also were from looked after children. This may show that high numbers are trans gender, or it might only show that more of these kids are progressed into medical transition.

It’s so important to know!

Which is frustrating as this is one of my main frustrations with trans ideology and those who take it on board - it plays around with facts, biological facts so we don’t know what people’s journeys or experiences are.

On the ONS site, it says that London had the highest % of those who identified as trans gender. Lowest in south west. Brighton and Hove were highest in populations over 16 years who identified as non binary.

I agree with this. It’s two different social contagions at once.

IME the working class kids are often naturally gender non conforming and are transitioning away from family homophobia (these are usually GNC before puberty) and the middle class kids are most likely autistic and struggling with the new social expectations of secondary school and puberty.

Both groups may have experienced genuine, life altering traumas. Both groups are sincerely distressed. Both groups are being let down by the adults who are meant to protect them (sometimes families, sometimes professionals, sometimes both).

@AnnaMagnani socially deprived kids are as likely, if not more so, than the m/c kids to fall foul of online social contagion. They are less likely to have their internet usage closely monitored by engaged carers, and will spend more time online as a retreat from the horrors of their real life. It's easy to stumble on a reddit thread and from there fall down a rabbit hole of TRA affirmation.

https://4w.pub/you-meet-more-perverts-when-poor/

really it's an empirical question, one we don't have the data for, and which would doubtless be complicated by rubbish like people claiming to be 'midway' rather than male or female.

most of the high profile TW's are I suppose upper middle class, but then so are most of the high profile anything.

Yup. I work with prisoners and if you read about their early lives, lots of them never had a chance as the abuse is multi generational.

I read an article recently about how you meet more perverts when you're poor. Can't find it now. But that would clearly point up a reason why girls in very vulnerable situations might identify out of being female.