Trans: the new ideology of the ruling class (article)

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think we can't easily tell what sex people are 99.9% of the time.

But you would not be able to tell the difference between him and any other man.

Indeed. Had the countless trans lobby groups spent some of their millions of £££ lobbying for third spaces from the outset we wouldn't be in this mess. Sadly their approach was to insist that women must be available to validate men who claim to be women & to upend the social contract rather than respecting the rights of others.

How on earth would you know? You would just see a big muscly man with a beard.

No, I don't want male people in the women's toilets.

Someone who was born female still is female.

I am quite happy for trans men to use the women's toilets unless they really do pass so convincingly that they actually look like men, which most of them don't.

If they actually look like men then they can use the men's and no one will be any the wiser I guess.

Where trans men pee isn't actually a burning issue for most people since trans men aren't a threat to either women or men.

You can keep repeating that like a matra but I would rather have a transman in the toilets with me than a trans woman.

You are not understanding. I was describing a transgender man who was born female. You don’t want him in the women’s toilet, you said so yourself, you would be unhappy to see him there.

You don’t want a trans man in the women’s toilet and you don’t think he belongs in the men’s. Where can he exist?

I am happy for male people to exist anywhere they like except in single sex spaces for female people.

Not sure what's so controversial about that.

I couldn't care less what people wear or how they present, although I would rather male people didn't call themselves women if I'm honest.

Well, where does he go? Where would you be happy seeing him?

Trans identifying males are not nicer than any other men. They don't deserve special treatment any more than other men.

Where they pee with out shopping is not a problem for women to solve.

You are the one calling him a woman. You are saying that you want him in there, but I do not believe you. You want him to not exist in public.

Are you 12? There's a nuanced discussion going on and this is your contribution?

What an odd comment.

What does that even mean, I don't want them to "be transgender"?

No, we don't want a big muscly bloke in there, but all he has to do now is claim to be a woman and there is nothing we can do about it.

I think you need to be a bit more honest about what you want. You don’t want these people to be transgender at all.

When a big muscly dude with a beard walks into a women’s toilet, the surprised reactions are not in that guy’s head. You don’t want him in there, it’s strange for him to be there.

There are toilets for male people and toilets for female people everywhere you go. Everyone is either male or female.

We are not the ones who have made it awkward for trans people to pee when out shopping, that is all in their head I'm afraid.

I fully support the provision of third spaces, but I'm a bit worried that we could go to an awful lot of effort and expense to provide them and trans people still wouldn't use them. Because what they want is to be in spaces for members of the opposite sex.

And I promise trans people were peeing in public back then too.

What the hell are these ‘needs’? And why do they involve making it awkward for trans people to pee when out shopping?

I feel like you have not hung out with many trans people in real life. They are the opposite of ‘men who have no respect for women.’

It means if you start talking about big hairy transmen, then they are unremarkable on the spectrum of female height distribution.

That's because until about five minutes ago we all understood that women are female people with vaginas and men are male people with penises and if you had said anything to the contrary everyone would have thought you were completely fucking insane.

Until very recently the social contract ensured that people followed social conventions and the law. Men didn't enter women's single sex spaces, it was accepted that children should be safeguarded from age inappropriate sexual issues etc. Women felt free to challenge a man invading a space where they were undressing, naked, using the toilet etc. All evolved from Victorian times as tools to allow women to play a full part in society.
Now we appear to have a new brand of Victorians - mainly men but as we sometimes see on here, women too - who openly argue that women have no rights to privacy, dignity or safety from unknown men or single sex sport etc.

It's a very regressive approach that dismisses the needs and rights of a range of protected / vulnerable groups, but the new male supremacist Victorians (male & female) are relentless in their pursuit of removing women's rights to boundaries, safety, sport and the rest.

99% of the time we can tell full well what sex a trans man is. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I met someone like Elliot Page in the women's toilets.