Trans: the new ideology of the ruling class (article)

Let us accept your premise as true for the moment.

If "living as a woman in our society" makes one a woman, what would happen if you migrated to another nation that had completely opposite social expectations of the sexes?

Do you change sex?

What if I'm translating a book about life in that nation, where social expectations are totally the opposite of our own, into the English language?

Do I translate their term for male human as "man" because he's biologically male, or should I translate it as "woman", because his social role parallels the role of women in the UK?

It would take more than a quippy phrase, it would take an academic article to compile everything that womanhood or manhood encompasses but as social constructs they are absolutely real and definable. Gender developed out of and around the sexes, but is not inherent to the sexes.

Living as a woman in our society makes you a woman.

Hardly, you are determined to flush women's rights down the proverbial toilet.

Trans people often don't pass on the level of gender however. So if you wanted "same gender spaces", it's not going to work.

Whether gender is a "social construct", or just stereotypes, or whatever, I'm not going to worry about here.

You could try for "same gender identity spaces", but then why is that a good idea?

That's not going to create "comfort", as even if makes some males feel good, it will cause problems for many women, impinge on their privacy, and create discomfort.

It's also impossible to really know anyone's gender identity in that situation, so it's just basically a mixed sex space that anyone can enter if they choose.

Makes a lot more sense to just keep with single sex spaces I think.

Of course she hasn't been arrested.

Women have empathy for another woman going through a biological phenomenon that only women ever experience, and they don't try to punish women for being female in the women's toilets.

Women's toilets are there so women can participate in public life without being subjected to the urinary leash, or the menstruation leash.

You must live a very odd life, that your first reaction to reading about a woman struggling with heavy periods is to query whether she has been arrested for it.

You will refuse to say what a woman or man actually is, though, right? Like, name one definite criterion that makes a person either a woman or a man - you will be unable to do that, yes? What all those people actually meant that had nothing to do with being female or male?

That’s really, really wild and unusual ! Most would be very taken aback to see a naked woman washing herself in a toilet sink.

Have you never been arrested or had someone come to check on you for that ?

@fionamattel Let us accept that transwomen only use the Ladies' to pee. (They don't but let's accept it for the moment). Women use the Ladies' for other reasons as well. I used to suffer from random heavy periods. While I could sort the worst of it out in the cubicle, I would end up naked from the waist down, standing in front of a sink, mopping my thighs, backside and groin with wet hand towels, rinsing out my knickers and sponging down my skirt. If you think that I should be expected to do that in the presence of a man then you can fuck off to the far side of fuck.

I think it’s important for you to know that this is not true. You were living amongst a sheltered crowd.

Now that’s something I can get behind.

I'm content with my "hobby" supporting women and their rights.

@fionamattel trotting out all the old tropes.

No one is trying to prevent trans people from using the toilet.

There are toilets for people of both sexes. You have yourself confirmed that there is no safety issue, that there is no evidence to suggest that trans women will be attacked in men's toilets, and so literally the only reason for them to use women's toilets instead is because they want to.

You're saying that what they want matters and what women want doesn't.

That women don't need single sex spaces but trans women can't possibly be expected to share spaces with members of their own sex.

That if we oppose trans women using women's spaces we are denying their right to exist in society, but if female women feel unable to use such spaces knowing that they may encounter someone with a penis they can stay home.

The level of misogyny you are displaying is utterly breathtaking.

I strongly suspect you are trying to provoke me into saying something against the Talk Guidelines so you can frantically hit the report button and have me banned, so I think I am going to quit while I am ahead and not give you the satisfaction.

Good night.

That's because until about five minutes ago we all understood that women are female people with vaginas and men are male people with penises and if you had said anything to the contrary everyone would have thought you were completely fucking insane.

The difference is that you are trying to prevent people from using the toilet, they are not.

If people can like it or lump it, then trans people can do this as well as women. They can 'reframe their trauma' and so on as they are so often told.

Or, we can accept that different people need different things and create third spaces, to be used by those who choose to do so, and everyone's access and feelings and identity choices and inclusion needs are equally valued.

Ok.

If you're going to identify as single sex spaces not existing, then I identify as this whole gender thing not existing. <shrug>