I'm not part of a fuffing community!!

That's certainly why you had these kinds of coalitions form, to achieve a concrete political or social goal.

The problem is that with identity politics, there is a belief that these blocks exist as some kind of more basic alliance, as a sort of affiliation, or as people whose larger interests are connected. That's what is supposed to make them a community, which is a set of interpersonal relationships, as opposed to something more like a limited political alliance.

The fact is that there is a huge diversity of interests, viewpoints, politics, religions, within most of these modern communities. In the LGBTQ+++ community in particular, there is even a fair bit of diversity on questions relating to sexuality. So even though those questions might be relevant to the group, there isn't a shared vision of what to do about them.

The people who spend a lot of time talking about these identity communities are usually trying to leverage the members political voices. Claim there is one viewpoint or interest, and that you represent it. Sometimes it's people within the group that want to do that too. It allows a pretty effective way of shutting up those people who might oppose your goals, both within the group and outside of it.

I've never belonged to the 'community' and in my youth I was actually subjected to homophobia because I wasn't 'being gay' in an acceptable way. This was in the most 'liberal' town in the UK where anyone can be whatever they like...as long as they adhere to the acceptable stereotypes of course. And I guess I didn't dress right or listen to the right music or have an obsession with Xena Warrior Princess...

I just live my life like any other person and I like to think that all the amazing lesbians that came before me will be proud to see that I can live a perfectly ordinary life with my girlfriend in the UK without feeling like I'm on display. I can't stand the constant labelling (even in terms of what type of lesbian I am: am I butch or femme etc) it's all so reductive.

You're not alone. I'm another lesbian expelled from the political gang of LGBT+ for being a lesbian who won't do men.

Or at least say so convincingly with fingers crossed behind back, because I think my right to be openly homosexual is equal to a man's right to my protection from the shocking experience of a woman walking around in possession of biology that is not even theoretically available to his use.

No - when the thing he ‘hates’ is behaviours or attributes commonly assumed to be gay traits.

Of course those of us who have been around the houses know these sort of gay people all too well. They’ve always been around, expounding on the ‘acceptable’ ways to be gay.

Well said OP. It's lazy practice by people who don't want to do the real work to create inclusive societies, policies, workplaces etc. to create buckets to chuck people in. "Disabled" and "BAME" (shudder) are the same, although I think that LGBTQIAA+ is definitely the worst.

I think 2 Spirit is a wilful misrepresentation of Polynesian and Native American terms for gay men. To try and imply they have a female soul in a male body and thus trans 'folk' have always existed.

Then evil Europeans came and ended this idyll by forcing everyone to be just male or female. Open to correction!

The poster I was responding to was clearly casting it as a hatred of camp gay men, or gay men who lisp. Because of course the entire point of the post was to imply that the 'good' gays get irritated by the 'bad' gays.

It's no different to someone saying they hate butch women, and claiming it's not homophobic even if raised in a discussion about lesbians.

I believe is is sort of made up stuff (fairly recent) that foolish folk have run with. Surely it assumes a belief in a diety?

What on earth is two-spirit?! The rest I can sort of guess at.

The initial goals of gay rights activism - to have gay people treated the same way as everyone else and recognition that all sorts of people could be gay, including boring ordinary normal people - proved not to be what a lot of activists actually wanted, so they have shifted in the last few years more towards the idea of a super-special "community" strongly associated with certain political views, ways of dressing etc that demands praise and celebration from the rest of society.

I'm a woman and I don't like when some women talk like little girls or literal baby talk, especially in business settings. I think it's to appear less threatening in a patriarchal, misogynistic world. I don't think that makes me a misogynist.

I also know a gay man who sees the "gay voice", vocal fry, baby talk etc as an annoying affectation that he thinks some gay men adopt to seem less threatening to straight men, so it might be a similar thought process rather than internalised self-hating homophobia.

Well, there was a need for a community back in the days of more widespread hostility towards gay people - when you'd lose your job, home, family etc if you came out.

The fact that gay people can now live without a 'community' is largely thanks to the work done by those communities to push for legal and social acceptance of gay and lesbian people.

Saying that community is irrelevant is like saying feminism isn't relevant because you're just happy with your ability to vote, work, control reproduction and all the other things that were hard won by previous generations of women.

If some retrograde politician started trying to roll back rights for gay people (happening in Italy) then you'd probably see yourself as part of a community pretty soon op. United we stand, divided we fall.

I get that the trans thing is more complicated, and it's slightly taken over what was a kind of lgb consensus. It makes sense that trans people want a community, even if you disagree with what they should be/are calling for.

It does sound like something Google suggests while giving you a virtual pat on the head and assuring you that you won't need to remember it.

What? You don’t get the newsletter, attend the quiz nights, go for the club outings? Don’t you pay the cub fees and attend the AGMs?

Shocking…

I get confused about this sort of thing: a gay man makes a statement about some gay men so the gay man is homophobic: ??? Can he just not like certain gay men?

Actually, Op - you may well be behind the times with the acronym.

• “LGBTQQIP2SAA is an acronym that stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex, pansexual, two-spirit (2S), androgynous, and asexual.”

A similar acronym was used by Justin Trudeau recently - 2SLGBTQQIA+
Someone on Twitter told him we didn’t need his Wifi password

"Community" is a warm, fuzzy term used/imposed by those outside it, the people who consider themselves tolerant, kind, welcoming and, usually, empathic. It's a subtly othering term, but it's been adopted by some people with the community characteristic for different reasons (usually associated with personal/ego-related reasons, such as making themselves some kind of spokesperson).

There are times when it's genuinely used by people who wish to form a community, but it's still always used to separate themselves.

It's funny how it doesn't work in certain cases: the Conservative or Labour community, the White community, the Edinburgh or Manchester community. If we were to say "the English community" it could only make sense if they were living abroad (the English community in Spain).

The words is a nonsense these days, but it's a helpful signal to indicate the possible motivations of those who use it.

Campness and gayness are not the same thing. You can be ssa and hate campness.

OP, imagine how the 'Asian community' or other ethnic groups feel.

Not sure that lauding pretty basic homophobia is a good move tbh.

He's obviously free to identify however he chooses, to associate with who he chooses etc. But let's not pretend that 'he hates camp blokes and lisping voices' is anything more than basic homophobia.

I'm none of the above. I have no problem with the LGB groupings. It the TQ who demand I give up my rights for their feelings.

Douglas Murray says something like this.
1

Phew. You had me going a bit there. I though fuffing might be a new furry "thing".

*wanders away again

Our ndn is gay and single, he hates camp blokes and lisping voices that some use. Being gay does not define him he explained to us. Being a good engineer, that is what matters to him.

I 100% agree.

Sometimes it feels like the current campaigns want to make us all into one unisex being which encompasses all gender sexuality etc because that's easier... Blergh.

Whatever happened to individuality???