Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

One in ten men have carried out sex offences against children

136 replies

HelenFisksBrownSuit · 22/09/2023 12:28

Have you seen this item?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/one-in-ten-men-have-carried-out-sex-offences-against-children-says-survey-fjhd59fhn

Is paedophilia really this common?
I once heard a man (a psychologist I think) say on Radio 4 that he thought most men look at very young teens or even children inappropriately. It's a very disturbing thought.

One in ten men have carried out sex offences against children, says survey

One in ten British men have carried out sexual offences against children, according to a major survey.The study involving 1,500 British men was carried out by

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/one-in-ten-men-have-carried-out-sex-offences-against-children-says-survey-fjhd59fhn

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
PurpleBugz · 29/09/2023 16:20

I've always thought it's a bit paedophilic to expect us to shave our pubes. Why would you only be attracted to a prepubescent looking vagina?

sashh · 29/09/2023 05:38

BlurredEdges · 28/09/2023 19:05

Yes. me too. 11 years old, awkward and a bit chubby, bad hair, no make up, horrible school uniform - fucking endless sexual attention from grown men. Including being flashed at, wanked at, obscene comments, and followed home.

I see your experiences and I would like to add, I attended a catholic girls school. Those three words seem to make men excited.

Nellieinthebarn · 28/09/2023 21:54

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 28/09/2023 21:15

With all due respect to all the PPs saying they work in child safeguarding/law enforcement (genuine respect - incredibly hard and difficult work: thank you for doing it) - your work is not showing you the risk of offending in the general male population. If you work with the families of children being abused and with sexual offenders/viewers of CSE, you are working with groups who inevitably have a high percentage of abusers.

Yes you are right, it is hard to maintain a positive view of humanity, and men in particular, in that line of work. And you are also right that I was dealing with vulnerable children, which also makes them more likely to experience exploitation. But if my families were almost 100% some form of CSE as a feature, then the 10% of the general population feels about right.

GodessOfThunder · 28/09/2023 21:21

It doesn’t say what % are 18 year olds snogging a 16-17 old

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 28/09/2023 21:15

Nellieinthebarn · 28/09/2023 19:11

I'm sadly not surprised by these statistics. I have worked in child protection for a short time, and CSE is a feature more often than not one way or another. And these are the ones who are caught, many many more go unreported and unidentified.

With all due respect to all the PPs saying they work in child safeguarding/law enforcement (genuine respect - incredibly hard and difficult work: thank you for doing it) - your work is not showing you the risk of offending in the general male population. If you work with the families of children being abused and with sexual offenders/viewers of CSE, you are working with groups who inevitably have a high percentage of abusers.

Nellieinthebarn · 28/09/2023 19:11

I'm sadly not surprised by these statistics. I have worked in child protection for a short time, and CSE is a feature more often than not one way or another. And these are the ones who are caught, many many more go unreported and unidentified.

BlurredEdges · 28/09/2023 19:05

JamSandle · 22/09/2023 12:52

I also remember getting the most attention from men in my life in secondary school in my school uniform. Even with messy hair, no makeup and acne. It's revolting.

Yes. me too. 11 years old, awkward and a bit chubby, bad hair, no make up, horrible school uniform - fucking endless sexual attention from grown men. Including being flashed at, wanked at, obscene comments, and followed home.

DisforDarkChocolate · 28/09/2023 19:04

Considering how young girls are when adult men start commenting on their looks etc how can you be surprised.

ArabeIIaScott · 28/09/2023 19:01

I couldn't find anything, Checking.

CheckingTheNumbers · 28/09/2023 18:35

Did anyone track down the source material for the claims made in the Times' report?

The article mentions an ISPCAN Congress. I took a look at the papers being presented but nothing seemed to line up as a possible source for the data. It did not seem like the papers were available for download.

Bosky · 28/09/2023 13:58

sashh I am inclined to agree with you. Some patterns of abuse have changed, others are unchanged, reporting has increased, new dangers have emerged.

Police uncovering 'epidemic of child abuse' in 1970s and 80s
5 Feb 2020

"Police say they are uncovering a hidden “epidemic” of paedophile abuse in the 1970s and 1980s, with thousands of allegations leading to convictions against people who abused their power to attack children.

New figures seen by the Guardian show that 4,024 allegations led to guilty verdicts at court after police investigations since 2014 into decades-old child sex offences.

Officers say hundreds of offenders, including teachers, religious workers, youth and care workers, thought they had got away with their crimes. Many victims have been traumatised, and some have killed themselves or been left with severe mental health problems.

Police believe the figures, which show that 35% of all allegations led to guilty verdicts, demonstrate that inquiries into non-recent sexual abuse are not “spaffing money up the wall”, as Boris Johnson last year claimed. Labour said Johnson should apologise to victims.

Officers believe there are many more allegations to come, and Chief Constable Simon Bailey, the national lead for child protection and abuse investigations, told the Guardian: “We are now having to come to terms, as a society, and we are going to have to recognise and accept, that during the 1970s and 1980s in particular, there was widespread sexual abuse of children taking place.

“These allegations and the vast majority of cases were never reported to the authorities. Some victims did not think they were going to be believed. There was one constant factor: there was an abuse of power … to satisfy their sexual desires.” . . .

. . . "“The really difficult thing to come to terms with is the untold damage that’s been done to victims and survivors. Some could not cope. It’s the toll that it has taken on their lives. Some victims committed suicide. Some coped, some are in the mental care system. The horrors bestowed on these children are horrific.”

Contemporary cases of child sexual abuse are also rising. “Policing today is having to deal with the sins of the past,” the chief constable said, with some paedophiles who offended in the past still presenting a danger today."

Full article:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/05/police-uncovering-epidemic-of-child-abuse-in-1970s-and-80s

Children vulnerable to abuse and violence during coronavirus lockdowns, UN experts warn
7 April 2020
https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1061282

INTERPOL report highlights impact of COVID-19 on child sexual abuse
7 Sept 2020
https://www.interpol.int/News-and-Events/News/2020/INTERPOL-report-highlights-impact-of-COVID-19-on-child-sexual-abuse

Covid-19: Rise in suspected child abuse cases after lockdown
16 Jan 2021
("After" should be read as "during")
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55682745

Lockdowns linked to tenfold rise in child abuse imagery
27 Jan 2023
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64415015

Police uncovering 'epidemic of child abuse' in 1970s and 80s

PM told to say sorry for remark about ‘spaffing’ money up wall as 4,024 claims lead to guilty verdicts

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/05/police-uncovering-epidemic-of-child-abuse-in-1970s-and-80s

sashh · 28/09/2023 09:00

RealityFan · 22/09/2023 13:00

Man here. I'm both not surprised yet totally perturbed by this report. Unfortunately the problem is also exacerbated by misogyny. Is it any "worse" than the past? Statistically, maybe, but not clear. Are we more aware of it? Evidently by this article, yes. Are there more avenues for men? Undoubtedly, yes.

For me, the main difference between now and "then", is societal indifference, blurring of boundaries, reduction in custodial sentences, the metastasisation of porn and sex work, and lobby group widening of the thin end.

There is genuinely less social stigma, so if perps or potential perps feel less isolated, less hemmed in, less judged, well, their bad behaviour will worsen and increase. Across the board.

Edited

In my experience it hasn't got worse, I say that as a 50+ year old woman who developed boobs in primary school.

I got a LOT of male attention. But I'd also been, what I now realise was, sexually assaulted at least twice before puberty hit.

Samantha Fox was 16 when she started appearing on p3.

There were countdowns to when young women would become 'legal' for a number of teenage girls.

A lot of men seemed to get a thrill seeing an 11 year old Emma Watson's pants when she sat cross legged in the first HP.

I didn't watch the big brother with Jim Davidson in it but I did watch a clip where he basically talks to another man about being able to rape a young woman because she was drunk / incapacitate and didn't and it was like he gave himself a medal, and the other men nodding along saying how great he had been.

This is old, but interesting reading about the 'countdown clock'

https://medium.com/@yomiadegoke/counting-down-to-female-celebrities-turning-legal-is-more-than-crass-its-dangerous-94f8abbf4674

Counting down to female celebrities “turning legal” is more than crass. It’s dangerous

A radio host was sacked after saying that “the countdown was on” until Olympian Chloe Kim turned 18. Yomi Adegoke looks at the trend

https://medium.com/@yomiadegoke/counting-down-to-female-celebrities-turning-legal-is-more-than-crass-its-dangerous-94f8abbf4674

Whyisegg · 28/09/2023 02:42

What these types of study often disregard is that not all those who abuse children are pedofiles. The sad truth is that abuse is carried out against those who are most vulnerable and unable to speak out or protect themselves. The idea that bad things happen because of bad people who exist like villains in a fairytale is nonsense and a false narrative. All human behaviour is learned and no one exists in a vacuum, victims and predators alike. The society we live in is not designed to protect the weak and the innocent, it exists to serve the rich and the powerful, everyone else is just fair game. Divide and conquer applies to every facet of society, because we are many and they are few. The easiest way to control the masses is to give them power and that's what men have - power over women, women they are taught to hate because women can bear children and children apparently are the only way to secure a future. Men are indoctrinated to believe women exist to serve them and are not their equals. The sooner women realise this the sooner they will be liberated.

SemperIdem · 27/09/2023 23:07

Adult men having relationships with young women barely out of their teens is morally questionable in the extreme.

There are studies about how slight age gaps between men and women are essentially biological imperative, 2-4 years.

Bigger age gaps are outliers.

DadJoke · 23/09/2023 16:16

It's incredibly hard to gather useful data on this. There is a full fact piece on it, and a large research study from Germany which has its flaws.

No research provides strong support for the online safety bill.

""The provisions in the Online Safety Bill that would enable state-backed surveillance of private communications contain some of the broadest and (most) powerful surveillance powers ever proposed in any Western democracy," lawyers Matthew Ryder and Aidan Wills of Matrix Chambers wrote in a legal opinion.
"No communications in the UK – whether between members of parliament, between whistleblowers and journalists, or between a victim and a victims support charity – would be secure or private.""

https://fullfact.org/crime/how-many-men-have-sexual-interest-children/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272150170_How_Common_is_Men%27s_Self-Reported_Sexual_Interest_in_Prepubescent_Children

How many men have a sexual interest in children? - Full Fact

It seems unlikely we’ll ever have a complete picture of how many adults experience sexual feelings towards children, partly because this is something which many people will be uncomfortable discussing

https://fullfact.org/crime/how-many-men-have-sexual-interest-children

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 13:06

Somanycats · 23/09/2023 12:39

Statistics have got to be a lot better than this to say anything useful. The first study seems to be defining men as over 18, and 'children' as under 18. So in fact these men are still at school and either having sex with or lusting after children in their own class. Of course they bloody are and there is nothing wrong with it - they are peers. DS certainly didn't stop having sex with his girlfriend when he became an adult in the February and she was still a 'child' until may! So he is one of the men who have had sex with a child.
I don't doubt we have a problem with men committing crimes against children but this study is not helping.

It seems to me that this study has been created in order to support the Bill.

I'm highly sceptical of the purpose and methodology.

Somanycats · 23/09/2023 12:39

Statistics have got to be a lot better than this to say anything useful. The first study seems to be defining men as over 18, and 'children' as under 18. So in fact these men are still at school and either having sex with or lusting after children in their own class. Of course they bloody are and there is nothing wrong with it - they are peers. DS certainly didn't stop having sex with his girlfriend when he became an adult in the February and she was still a 'child' until may! So he is one of the men who have had sex with a child.
I don't doubt we have a problem with men committing crimes against children but this study is not helping.

localnotail · 23/09/2023 12:24

I grew up in another European country in the 80s and can say there was a large number of girls I knew of thats been assaulted, raped etc. It was not in the news much but you heard it through friends - a girl was raped behind garages after a man took her school bag and made her follow him; someone seen someone assaulted on public transport; some guy stuck his hand into friends underpants in cinema etc. I myself had a couple of "near misses" where I literally had to run away from men, terrified; I once was assaulted in public toilet; another time, a man approached a group of us with quite a direct proposition (you touch mine and I touch yours and I will give you money). All these happened before we even reached puberty, 8-11 years old. I must add - we played on our own outside/ went to cinema/ went to visit friends living nearby since around 6 yo, it was considered normal. We were also quite streetwise and suspicious. But the number of men willing to do this kind of shit was huge.

spirit20 · 23/09/2023 10:59

Like all studies, how seriously it can be taken depends on how it was actually conducted, and not just replying on clickbait headlines.

For example: how was the below question phrased that led to the finding 'Almost one in twenty (4.8 per cent) of those surveyed said they had had sexual contact with a child when they themselves were aged 18 or older'. Is this taking into account men who at the age of 18 had a 16/17 year old sexual partner? If so, I would bet the same wording would have led to a similiar % of women saying yes?

How were participants for the study recruited? Was it geared towards recruiting participants who were already using certain services (e.g. sex offender rehabilitation services)?

Startingagainandagain · 23/09/2023 10:40

@heathspeedwell

''I remember a couple of scary things I have read about on here that may back up this survey.

One was a survey (I think it may have been on students) that asked men if they would rape a woman if they thought they would definitely get away with it. Shockingly one in five men said yes.

And the other sad fact that has stuck in my brain was from when that poor 14 year old girl was gang raped in the US and one of the rapists filmed it and put it on Pornhub. Even though she was a child and it was clearly rape, she couldn't get Pornhub to take it down.

But even more disturbing than that, it was one of the most popular things to watch on Pornhub for ages and I think they estimated that one in five men in the US actively searched for it. ''

This is horrific.

I really don't understand how women and girls' bodies are so easily reduced by men to just being basically objects/toys and how they can justify such violence (or be turned on by it). We truly are a sick society.

As for Pornhub, I don't know why they are still in business.

That's why I always feel so annoyed when I see so many people defending the widespread consumption of pornography online.

They always gloss over the fact that many of these videos are made without women's consent and/or glorify violence against them and twist the views that men have of what sex should look like.

ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 08:54

DadJoke · 22/09/2023 17:51

I always get irritated with press releases about surveys where they don't point at the actual data. It doesn't look like this will be released for a while, and may only be released to professionals in the field in any case.

The only information we have about the methodology is that it's "carried out using an anonymised online survey in which men were asked questions about their sexual behaviour." Best case, this might be a carefully selected group broken down by demographics and then reassured that the answers won't be tied to them personally, but if it's self-selecting, it's pretty much useless.

It's entirely possible the stats are exactly as they appear to be, but I'll wait for the report.

I'm in complete agreement with you, here.

Not at all enough information to go on to assess the value of this research. I visited the Childlight website and there's no reference to the study.

Bosky · 23/09/2023 06:42

TeenEyeroll · 22/09/2023 14:06

How were the respondents selected for the survey? I find these statistics improbable. I can imagine that if there was any element of self-selection, at any point, it would bias pervier men who jump at any opportunity to think and talk about what gets them off.

For example, if at any point the survey said something like “we will be asking some questions of an intimate and sexual nature, do you agree to continue?” the less pervy men would bail at that point.

I am concerned that this is being used as leverage to get us to agree to outlawing private and encrypted communications and to allow the State to snoop on us - using child protection to scare us into relinquishing our rights to privacy.

"I am concerned that this is being used as leverage to get us to agree to outlawing private and encrypted communications and to allow the State to snoop on us - using child protection to scare us into relinquishing our rights to privacy."

They have effectively done that via the Online Safety Bill, which has been passed and is on its way to receiving Royal Assent. The only things standing in their way are,
a) companies that use encrypted communication, like WhatsApp and Signal, are threatening to withdraw services from the UK, not least because enabling a "backdoor" for the UK Police compromises security of users worldwide, and
b) the technical means to break encryption do not exist, as admitted by Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay.

"UK Online Safety Bill to become law – and encryption busting clause is still there"
Admits it's 'not technically feasible' ... but with no promise not to invoke it
The Register 20 Sept 2023
https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/20/uk_online_safety_bill_passes/

The Times article explicitly links the article in the OP with articles about the Online Safety Bill. From the article:

"The study involving 1,500 British men was carried out by Edinburgh University’s Childlight unit, a research centre that investigates the risk of sexual exploitation of children and young people, and the University of New South Wales, Australia."

"Related Articles" below that one include this one written by Paul Stanfield, chief executive of Childlight:

"Only powerful regulation can end the silent pandemic of online child abuse"
22 Sept 2023
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/only-powerful-regulation-can-end-the-silent-pandemic-of-online-child-abuse-8h3zp05xw

Archive: https://archive.ph/NK1q7

and this one:

"Online Safety Bill approved by House of Lords
20 Sept 2023
The legislation has completed its passage through parliament and is expected to receive royal assent next month
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/online-safety-bill-uk-parliament-law-30m06jdt3

Archive: https://archive.ph/PYB1x

From the Free Speech Union newsletter to members (my bolding):

"UK Parliament finally passes censorial Online Safety Bill"

The UK’s controversial and long-awaited Online Safety Bill, which contains sweeping new surveillance and censorship measures, concluded its final Parliamentary debate on Tuesday and will soon achieve Royal Assent, meaning it will then become law (BBC, Reuters, Times).

The FSU is disappointed that the legislation has been passed. But thanks to our lobbying and campaigning, as well as our members who contacted their MP to express their misgivings about the Bill, the version of reaching the statute books is at least an improvement on earlier versions.

In particular, the obligation on social media companies to “address” so-called ‘legal but harmful’ content, as set out in Clause 13 of the original legislation, has now been removed. Our objection to this clause was essentially that the phrase “address” risked becoming a euphemism for “remove”. If the Government had published a list of legal content it considered harmful to adults and imposed an obligation on social media companies to say how they intended to “address” it, that would have nudged them to remove it. But thanks to the lobbying of the FSU, that obligation has now been dropped.

The new Harmful Communications Offence, which was to replace s127 of the Communications Act, as well as the Malicious Communications Act, and could have seen people jailed for two years for sending or posting a message with the intention of causing “psychological harm amounting to at least serious distress”, has also been scrapped. In other words, the legislation won’t now criminalise saying something, whether online or offline, that causes ‘hurty feelings’, and the FSU deserves most of the credit for that.

In addition, the original duty imposed on social media companies to “have regard” for freedom of expression – which is so undemanding, it’s virtually pointless – has now been bumped up to “have particular regard”, thanks to us.
Finally, we were ahead of the curve in promoting user empowerment as an alternative to the de facto removal of ‘legal but harmful’ content – in the final iteration of the legislation, the locus of responsibility for online safety has shifted from paternalist providers to empowered users. The result is that instead of saying how they intend to “address” harmful content in their terms of service, companies like Facebook and X (formerly Twitter) will now have to say what tools they’re going to make available to their users so they can act as their own content moderators.

It’s important to note that the passage of the Bill onto the statute book is not the end of the story as far as the FSU’s campaigning work goes.

Ofcom’s Chief Executive, Dame Melanie Dawes, this week confirmed that the UK’s new regulator for online safety will shortly be setting out the first set of standards that it expects tech firms to meet when it comes to offering users the option to filter out ‘harmful’ content that they don’t want to see.

The FSU will be watching closely to see how those ‘standards’ end up influencing the user empowerment tools that each social media platform subsequently offers its users.

There is, for instance, a significant risk that the big providers will establish a ‘safe’ mode as their default setting, so that if adult users want to see ‘lawful but awful’ content they will have to ‘opt in’.

That may mean perfectly lawful yet politically contentious views – e.g., an article in the Spectator by a gender critical feminist – will be blocked by default since woke victim groups will argue that any such views constitute incitement to hatred based on their protected characteristics.

Of course, users will have the option of adjusting their settings so they can see that content, but some won’t want to in case, say, a colleague sees something ‘hateful’ over their shoulder and reports them to HR for ‘harassment’.

And what about those who won’t even be aware they have a choice, or are aware but don’t know how to do anything about it?

We know that that’s likely to be a lot of people thanks to research carried out by behavioural scientists on what’s known as ‘choice architecture’ – i.e., the way in which customers are presented with choices will influence their subsequent decision-making. As countless studies in this area have now demonstrated, one of the most powerful tools available to organisations wishing to ‘nudge’ consumers down certain behavioural pathways is the humble ‘default setting’. That’s because consumers tend to be too lazy to revise those settings or don’t know how.

The devil will be in the detail of what each social media platform’s version of ‘safe browsing’ looks like. If a platform’s ‘safe mode’ becomes the default setting, how easy will it be to switch it off? As one recent study put it, “If defaults have an effect because consumers are not aware that they have choices… [they] impinge on liberty.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/only-powerful-regulation-can-end-the-silent-pandemic-of-online-child-abuse-8h3zp05xw

allhellcantstopusnow · 22/09/2023 18:30

PinkNailpolish · 22/09/2023 17:59

Does this include 18 year old men with 16 year old girls or are we talking younger (16 and 18 is normal when they're in sixth form college)? 10% seems so high and really disturbs me. Although men my dad's age (20+ years older than me) kept eyeing me up and cat calling me when I was a teen and in my early 20s (when I still looked like a teen). I'm in my late 20s with a child now and these creeps don't look at me anymore (thank god).

The numbers I'm talking about don't include the 16-18 sort of grey area.

It's either 18 year olds with 13/14 year olds or older men and girls 15 and below; sometimes (semi regularly), well below.

Increasinglyfrazzledteacher · 22/09/2023 18:28

“The study was carried out using an anonymised online survey in which men were asked questions about their sexual behaviour.”

It’s self-selecting online survey, like the one that led to the often-made claim that one in four transwomen have attempted suicide. I am taking it with a considerably large pinch of salt.

FairyLover90 · 22/09/2023 18:02

@PinkNailpolish

most developed countries protect this age gap of 16-18 year olds. Some call these laws the “romeo and juliet” laws.