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Original poster

Scottish women - speak up now while you still can.

212 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 21/09/2023 12:40

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-set-up-new-30983808

'Police Scotland is setting up a dedicated hate crime unit ahead of Humza Yousaf's hugely controversial new laws coming into force early next year, it can be revealed.
The unit is expected to go live in November and training of the force's 16,400 officers gets underway in December in preparation for the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act being implemented in early 2024. The legislation consolidates existing law and extends protection for vulnerable groups with a new offence of "stirring up hatred".
Under the Act, offences are considered "aggravated" – which could influence sentencing – if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity or variations in sex characteristics. Critics fear a disproportionate amount of police time will be diverted into policing toxic gender culture wars, with an over emphasis on "pursuing hurtful words but not violent conduct".
They claim the new laws will also have a "chilling effect" on free speech and warn that campaigners supporting women's rights may find themselves facing accusations of transphobia. Helen Joyce, director of advocacy with human rights group Sex Matters, said: "The establishment of a new, dedicated hate crime unit at Police Scotland sends a sinister message to those who advocate for women's and children's rights.'

Police Scotland set up new unit to tackle 'hate crime' such as misgendering

The dedicated unit will go live in November as Humza Yousaf's hated hate crime laws – which could see people criminalised for what they think or what they say in their own homes – will finally come into effect in 2024

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-scotland-set-up-new-30983808

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Thread gallery
13
Pixiedust1234 · 23/09/2023 14:35

Perhaps the best way would be to accuse anonymously all the police officers in that unit of looking at others a bit funny. Let them tie themselves up in knots so they can't be unleashed against the general public.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 14:29

Yes we could. Although this would tie up Police time, which would have implications.

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ghostofadog · 23/09/2023 14:28

So could we break the system by a mass action where we all report utter nonsense that has to be investigated and the whole thing grinds to a halt? I'm up for it.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 14:06

No evidence. No witnesses.

I can't emphasise enough how fucked this is.

'the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident or in recognising the malice element of a crime. The perception of the victim should always be explored, however they do not have to justify or provide evidence of their belief and police officers or staff members should not directly challenge this perception. Evidence of malice and ill-will is not required for a hate crime or hate incident to be recorded and thereafter investigated as a hate crime or hate incident by police'

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Thelnebriati · 23/09/2023 13:35

So what is the standard of evidence needed? How many witnesses? If I can produce a witness who is brave enough to say 'that didn't happen' (and they would have to be fucking brave to stand up in the face of that), will it be treated as a false accusation?

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 13:22

So. Any one who wants to build a case against a parent, can report them for 'transphobia' and this will be recorded as a 'hate incident' by the police.

How will this reflect on any interaction with social services? Are families going to be cast as 'abusive' if they don't fall in line with a child's demands for a new 'identity'?

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Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 13:20

I'm just sharing Maggie Chapman's speech here, on 'transphobic' families.

Just considering how this might interact with the Hate Crime Bill.

https://twitter.com/markthehibby/status/1704898818615988548

'... the noisy clamour against confidentiality for children's gender identity is dangerous in its transphobic tendencies, but also in the way that it potentially undermines the safety of that vital space - home.

Children and young people must be able to talk to responsible professionals about their lives with the assurance that information won't be shared with possibly abusive family members'.

Note how she conflates parents wanting to know about children declaring a new identity as 'transphobia', and calls parental concerns 'dangerous', and then slides neatly into 'abuse'.

https://twitter.com/markthehibby/status/1704898818615988548

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Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:45

He made a guilty plea, so just sentencing, not sure when.

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JuvenileEmu · 23/09/2023 09:44

When is the Andrew Miller case going to court? Hopefully it will get plenty of media attention

JuvenileEmu · 23/09/2023 09:42

Kinneddar · 22/09/2023 14:50

but get back to solving actual crimes and protecting the public please

Believe me there's nothing the cops on the street would like more

I'm sure the officers in the hate crime squad will approach their work with the same enthusiastic zeal as members of Mao's red guard though.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:34

I had honestly thought this would never be brought into force. Police Scotland had stalled and said they couldn't implement it without more training and resources.

2024 seemed like a world away three years ago.

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ChaToilLeam · 23/09/2023 09:33

I despair for Scotland. But the bloody SNP keep getting voted back in! There is NO effective opposition keeping them in check.

sydenhamhiller · 23/09/2023 09:32

ArabeIIaScott · 21/09/2023 17:08

This is the really crucial bit:

'Malice and ill-will

Understanding malice and ill-will is important to understanding the extent of the hate. The term hate implies a high degree of animosity, whereas the definition and the legislation require that the crime must be demonstrated or motivated (wholly or partly) by malice and ill-will.

(In the absence of a precise legal definition of malice and ill-will, consideration should be given to the ordinary dictionary definition, to wish someone harm).

Perception

For recording purposes, the perception of the victim or any other person is the defining factor in determining whether an incident is a hate incident or in recognising the malice element of a crime. The perception of the victim should always be explored, however they do not have to justify or provide evidence of their belief and police officers or staff members should not directly challenge this perception. Evidence of malice and ill-will is not required for a hate crime or hate incident to be recorded and thereafter investigated as a hate crime or hate incident by police.'

If you were going to try and write 'thought crime' out, this is what you'd say, isn't it?

(All above excerpted from the guidance, I linked to upthread. Bolding all mine.)

This makes my blood run cold.

My first thought was, as you say, ‘thought crime’.

So, there doesn’t have to be evidence of malice, just someone perceiving that their feelings are hurt.

It’s like the 6 and 7 year olds I teach are taking over the world…

Waitwhat23 · 23/09/2023 09:31

And given we've already got known litigious wallopers (like Mr Ribbony Fearty) using the Police as their own personal enforcers, it can only get worse.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:19

I saw absolutely no mention at all of vexatious or malicious complainants in that guidance.

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Froodwithatowel · 23/09/2023 09:15

And presumably there's a policy of what to do with vexatious complainants to avoid tax payer money being spent on police running around in circles meeting the emotional needs of someone with a problem and wasting hour after hour of police time.

But then this is the bunch who insist that putting rapists in women's prison is fine and they can't see any of the evidence in front of them, and the Emperor is very very pretty in his frock.

No taxation without representation.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:09

Someone will have done a risk assessment and stress test to ensure that this will not lay open Police Scotland to massive bot-generated online reporting that could overwhelm the system, yes?

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HughCanoe · 23/09/2023 09:08

Also work in a University in a captured department 😭

HughCanoe · 23/09/2023 09:07

I'm in Scotland and appalled as well. I can't believe women have been treated like this. Dystopian.

Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:07

It's a bit hard to explain because it's so fucking mad.

Anyone can report anything online anonymously, accusing anyone of anything.

Police are bound to investigate.

To give an entirely fabricated example, someone in Russia can make an online report that Shirley Ann Somerville glared at Alex Salmond and that this was a hate incident motivated by malice. Police will have to investigate.

Evidence is not required.

There is no definition or threshold for what constitutes 'hate'. It rests on the perception of the person reporting, who does not need to be the victim.

I should add I'm not a lawyer, and if I have misinterpreted the law/guidelines then I'd be very happy to be corrected!

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Original poster
ArabeIIaScott · 23/09/2023 09:01

EvelynBeatrice · 22/09/2023 22:44

We get what we deserve. So long as women in Scotland continue to vote for parties promoting these policies that's what we'll get.
Females ( on the basis of their sex/ biology) are by far the largest group targeted and suffering prejudice on the basis of a shared characteristic and remain unprotected. It's staggering that the current administration has the neck to do this.

That said, there shouldn't be any difficulty at all in identifying into another group that is protected since it goes on one's say so only.

Nobody needs to be a member of a protected group to accuse anyone of a hate incident.

Unconnected third parties can report. Anonymously.

So anyone can report anyone else for anything.

I can't stress enough how mad this is.

No threshold, no definition, no evidence required.

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Froodwithatowel · 23/09/2023 08:55

We get what we deserve. So long as women in Scotland continue to vote for parties promoting these policies that's what we'll get.

I'm afraid I agree with this. Women have to wake up and see what is coming, and do something about it now.

Those who think they're privileged enough not to have to worry about it are only ever one event away from having their eyes opened wide. Vapid sentimentality and good intentions are not going to save you or your daughter.

slore · 23/09/2023 04:41

How about solve the endless rapes, burglaries and robberies that go unpunished before harassing people for being meanies to super snowflakes?

LaviniasBigBloomers · 23/09/2023 00:07

Given rapists under the age of 25 basically get three months and a pat on the head due to the new sentence guidance for younger criminals (and that's given the impossibility of them even being convicted in the first place, natch) maybe you should change the thread title to 'young Scottish women, time to pick up the chat.'

Not even joking. The state-sponsored inequalities in our justice system make me weep. But we may as well use this one to our advantage.

HelenaTranscart · 22/09/2023 23:52

Agree, I feel politically homeless. I hate the Tories, having grown up in Thatcher's era, but I will for the first time in my life vote Conservative at the next election on this single issue. God forgive me!

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