Britons more liberal on non traditional families but not trans issues

Well obviously, I don't want trans people to die in a grease fire, but I also think they have no place in women's spaces. 🤷‍♀️

You can see the actual British Social Attitudes report here:

https://natcen.ac.uk/publications/bsa-40-liberalisation-attitudes

As well as being able to read the full chapter, there is also a link to the technical report on the sampling and how the data were analysed. I know some posters have questioned the use of the word prejudiced but for me the significant fact is that using this same question over the years enables the researchers to show changes in responses over time.

Where I would take issue with the report chapter is that it is written on the assumption that nothing has changed in terms of transgender people and their rights since they first asked the question in 2016. To me, the decline in support for people to change the sex recorded on their birth certificates has occurred because of worries about transgender prisoners in women's jails and crime statistics that record gender identity not sex. In the same way, why should people not change their views if in 2016 their contact with transgender people was limited to people who had undergone gender reassignment therapy and were mainly concerned with being able to marry their partner compared with witnessing people being physically threatening to people who don't share their views and seeing trans women gain advantages by competing in women's sports? The transgender population has changed, hence the changes in public perceptions.

The prejudice question is weird. I'd almost wonder if very very liberal people might say they're prejudiced because they're not being good enough allies?! And, if you are prejudiced, are you going to say so?

But the weirdness of it reminded me of this, where there was no neutral category to put yourself in. Possibly as a result, 1/3 said they couldn't choose from the labels offered:

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/attitudestootransgenderpeople.pdf

"How does the public feel about transgender people?

Respondents were asked to choose from a list of words to describe their feelings about transgender people. They could choose as many as they liked.

One-third (31%) said that they could not choose from the words on offer. Respondents who did choose were more likely to have positive than negative feelings about transgender people. Just under half of all respondents (45%) said that they felt ‘respect’, and 21% said that they felt ‘admiration’. Those who had negative feelings were most likely to say they felt ‘pity’ (16%). Relatively few said they felt ‘disgust’ (3%), ‘fear’ (2%) or ‘resentment’ (1%). Only two people in the sample said they felt ‘envy’."

Who could have come up with such categories?

"The findings of this report come from the 2019 BSA survey. Carried out by the National Centre for Social Research annually since 1983, the BSA survey is an authoritative source of data on the views of the British public."

You guessed it!

My thoughts, too

In this case, I think this is worth reading more than the headline which I think is misleading considering the numbers involved.

It was 84 compared to over 3000 for race related offences. Considering we know from cases and women targeted, that at least a few of those were for putting up stickers and ribbons, then I think that headline is fearmongering.

Gutted for Nancey. Hope she doesn't have to repay her performance related bonus.

The trans lobby isn't liberal, to frame being pro trans lobby as liberal (i.e. less liberal on trans issues as this article is saying) is nonsense.

Às hate crimes include things like “misgendering” aka known as recognising biological sex or trans widows failing to affirm their exH shiny new female identity, those figures need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt

It’s not prejudice, it’s push back, because many people are fed up to the back teeth with being beaten over the head with rainbow flags and told what mean, spiteful bullies we are for stating biological fact. Can you imagine how brightly the fires would be burning if the trans lobby was transported back to the Middle Ages and given power?

No-one expects the Transquisition…..

Interesting that they're reporting responses purely by 'sex' though - no magical 'other'

That's a very good point. What about the poor NBs? Surely there can be no worse kind of 'prejudice' than actually claiming that people simply do not exist? Nasty prejudiced pollsters.

I can't help wondering whether framing the question that way is very deliberate - it can be cited as evidence that Britain is becoming more prejudiced against transpeople, they're even more oppressed and in more danger than ever before etc

It's very deliberately polarising. They may as well have just asked "Are you a goodie or a baddie?"

That way, they can both use the proportion of 'goodies' to (1) validate the 'groundswell of support' that their movement and methods enjoy whilst also (2) citing the sheer number of 'baddies' who are 'threatening their freedoms' - which is even more concerning and simply cannot be tolerated in a 'mainly-decent society' where [see 1].

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61797623.amp

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/hate-crime-transgender-uk-figures-b2196759.html

That was exactly my thought @NoScooby

Thanks, I knew I wouldn't catch everything in my stream of consciousness!

I forgot to include the institutional remembrance events and flag-waving ceremonies for the zero trans people who have been killed in the UK in recent years (Yes there is a case outstanding which no-one should prejudice by trying to 'claim' it for one side or another)

I can't help wondering whether framing the question that way is very deliberate - it can be cited as evidence that Britain is becoming more prejudiced against transpeople, they're even more oppressed and in more danger than ever before etc

Spot on.

I would like to add to your list if I may:

• The entire ideology is based on regressive sexist stereotypes.
• Lesbians and gay men being told they can’t choose a same sex partner as it’s transphobic nor can they meet in peace.
• Some straight couples playing with their gender or engaging in sexual deviancy appropriating the gay rights movement/struggle.

I mean, if it wasn't for the...

• rapists in women's prisons
• violence at women's events all over the world
• men winning awards set up for women
• men playing in women's sports
• obscene behaviour by assorted trans-identified people eg that person Artemis in the american sorority house, Lia Thomas in the changing rooms, Wii Spa guy
• men on lesbian dating apps / 'sexual racists'
• Stonewall and others misrepresenting equality legislation
• detransitioners and how they are treated
• transwidows and how they are treated
• sissy porn/degrading writers eg Chu, Lavery
• press reporting of male suspects and criminals as 'woman'
• heavy-handed policing of GC women with stickers or ribbons (or taking a photo of one of these heinous things!)
• forcing crime victims to use wrong-sex pronouns in court trials
• mad inconsistency (is gender dysphoria a debilitating illness or an identity, why do kids need to be medicalised while adults don't need to do anything to their bodies to insist on being treated as the opposite sex)
• surgery and hormones being used on young people especially gay, autistic, looked-after kids and those with other comorbidities
• dehumanising language used in healthcare instead of everyday language about and for women
• institutional harassment (all the court cases from academia, publishing, law etc)

...I would have a much more positive view of trans rights!

@MaryEarpsTongue apologies, I missed that.

I don't think scolding people is going to get them to just put up with those behaviours either. @Froodwithatowel

But how about educating people? 😂

That sums me up too.

Interesting that over time experience of LGB has resulted in increasing acceptance and normalisation.

And that increased experience of the behaviours of the TQ+ lobby is resulting in a decrease.

I don't think scolding people is going to get them to just put up with those behaviours either.

The other thing is that no debate was never going to be a long term winning strategy. You can silence people for some time but if you allow that to lead you to believe that they agree with you in the absence of developing arguments that will secure genuine agreement, you're in for a shock once people start talking. And they always start talking, especially when you try to involve their kids.

Interesting, as others have pointed out there's a pretty obvious elephant in the room here. Britons are becoming more liberal which is why they are increasingly rejecting the regressive and deeply conservative gender stereotyping pushed by the trans movement.

but it may in fact be the case that policy-making has moved too far beyond the public consensus in the past three years, instead provoking a backlash.

Gosh, ya think??!

And this bit in the report is... interesting:

However, since 2016 (and 2019 in particular), the views of all demographic groups on these two matters have changed to a relatively similar degree, strongly suggesting that the decline in the liberal position reflects a period effect, with all groups being influenced by the prolific coverage and discussion of issues relating to this group. In other words, we may be seeing a period effect similar to that which we witnessed in the 1980s for attitudes to homosexual relationships, with the emergence of HIV-AIDS and the introduction of Section 28. The substantial impact of this period effect inevitably makes it challenging to predict how views on this matter might evolve in the future. Previous analysis suggests that progressive policymaking may alter people’s views (Swales and Attar, 2017) – but it may in fact be the case that policy-making has moved too far beyond the public consensus in the past three years, instead provoking a backlash.