Tragic suicide

I have every sympathy with the family. A horrible tragedy.

The Good Law Project, however, should be very careful. Are they a charity?

Whether it’s pushed by the Good Law Project or the deceased’s family, it’s quite clear that this story has been edited to fit a political agenda.

This is so difficult a topic to comment on because sympathy goes out to any family affected by suicide.

With the additional information that The Good Law Project are involved - I hope they are not forcing more publicity and their own agenda on the family.

That Argus piece is relatively balanced, btw, I wasn't referring to it specifically.

I have seen a few headlines that baldly state AL's death was caused by waiting times and an underfunded service.

That is bloody irresponsible and dangerous.

Good Law Project are working with the family, I see.

Surely IPSO should be having words with various media outlets over how this is being reported?

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2023/09/20/brighton-trans-womans-family-speak-out-as-inquest-is-adjourned/

Any other condition and people would be asking why taking the medication has failed to improve matters - and, as was found with all ages but particularly with young people and antidepressants, whether it actually increased the risk of suicide.

I'm a little confused.

This is obviously awful and I am so sorry for the family's loss. I am just confused about exactly what "gender affirming" care Alice was waiting for. Alice was already on cross sex medication and was already"living as a woman". Was Alice waiting for bottom surgery?

I'm not being goady, I'm not sure what the reports actually mean when they say gender affirming care.

If anyone is on Twitter, please could you consider giving this a bump:

https://twitter.com/BonfireLady/status/1704887123088732411?t=hCk5IoVlfQlqXQYDcl_Xuw&s=19

The way this is being reported really is so dangerous, as per several comments in this thread.

Unfortunately the self-policed BBC complaints process is unlikely to achieve anything and IPSO are masters at tangling stuff up in process, even with their new editorial guidelines on reporting where transgender issues are related. Twitter is at least an effective way of getting this seen..

That's another interesting facet to what on the surface seems open-and-shut.

So "Child dies waiting for GAS" is actually "Adult on cross sex hormones with a psychiatrist parent dies after following a gender affirming pathway of wooquackery for three years while awaiting surgery that probably wouldn't have fixed anything."

And can the TRA movement actually agree on whether surgery is or is not what they want, because by the TRA lobby's own admission it's pointless and hormones are the thing. So many "transwomen with penises" argue vehemently that surgery is unnecessary (especially for rapists and other sexual predators) and that's why they kept their penises. But they're pushing really hard this narrative that children and young people should be castrated for the cause because they're not satisfied with just medicating them. They're totally contradicting themselves.

Long waiting lists for children have been a state for years I've been asking for assessment of my child for ten years he has JUST been verbally diagnosed with autism and has now been referred for dyspraxia testing he is 15 soon I had to complain to pals in the end his whole life has been affected by this

No-one cares about children

I can't know that, but I believe that.

I actually saw the sister with a placard passing through Victoria Station on the day of Trans Pride.
She's so young, as were all the other, mainly young women I saw, late teens/early twenties at most.
It was just terribly sad, like turkies voting for Christmas.

We can't possibly know that. You only have to look on here at families desperate to do the right thing by their child - affirm despite their own views, question gently, cheerlead, go private, wait and see - and finding there isn't a right thing.

Because nothing on earth can grant these children their wish and actually make them the opposite sex.

Yes, the tragedy here is the failure of mental health provision and the face that people languish on waiting lists for gender services rather than receiving holistic mental health support.

Sounds like the family were an echo chamber which only heightened the individual's desire to change sex and belief that medical and surgical intervention was the only solution.

She left NHS psychiatry a long time ago and now runs a Pilates studio but I do agree that it is reasonable to expect her to know her way around the NHS.

In one newspaper report she bemoans the fact that she was not able to use her status to get around what she referred to as "gatekeeping" of NHS services. What some people might call "queue jumping".

@Bosky excellent post.

The difficulty with this case is that all the facts have not been stated neutrally so there is an element of simplifying the cause - something that should not be done in case it does more anguish to others.

I agree with this. In my area it's currently 3+ years for an Autism or ADHD assessment for children, adults its even harder to be assessed without going private, and CAMHS reject many referrals straight out, or offer parents a one off training to parents without ever meeting the child. EHCPs are also grinding to a halt in this area, way over target time.

Large numbers of children and young people self harming, in crisis, unable to attend school, without support, many of them neurodiverse. The lack of resources and mental health support, or coherent approaches, is a disgrace.

I seem to recall reading that Helen Belcher of Trans Media Watch had been very busy some years ago introducing Gender Ideology to Channel 4. Channel 4 has always prided itself on being lefty and cutting edge and I don't imagine it took much to recruit it as an ally.

This Tweet from Christine Burns gives some background. C4 signed itself up as a trans ally as early as 2013 — before Stonewall officially took up the T.
https://twitter.com/HelenCBelcher/status/1663079127266611200

I don't think you can expect Channel 4 to be any more impartial on this issue than the BBC. They were both captured some time ago.

Thanks to all those who have posted links to other reports of this sad death.

They seem to clearly indicate that C4 did not do research but decided, for whatever reason, to allow the family to represent how they perceive their child's death. I think they wanted to slant the report to be about them being so upset they were seeking legal redress.

My quote from the BBC was in response to the OP as the issue was whether any treatment had been offered or take up, not about which service.

Although it now seems that the family sought private health care which both the BBC and C4 didn't refer to. I hope the inquest does a better job in considering all aspects of this tragedy.

And I appreciate the comments about how the media such report on suicides. Although it seems that the family have sought this publicity. But they may have to face the fact that the evidence given will not tally with how they think who is at fault.

OK, but note that with mental health services, for example, it can also take years to get an ADHD or Autism assessment.

Certain areas may not even offer treatments for some mental health conditions.

And if you want access to secondary mental health services / a psychiatrist, you may sometimes simply be told that you don't meet the criteria for the service.

No it’s not. The median wait for a consultant led assessment in the NHS in December 2022 was 14 weeks. 92% of people were assessed within 46 weeks.

By comparison, the main GIC in London is only now seeing patients referred five years ago for a first appointment.

I have raised money for Papyrus. I hope this information is helpful to anyone reading this thread who is concerned about a child or young person they know.

PAPYRUS is the national charity dedicated to the prevention of young suicide.

PAPYRUS Prevention of Young Suicide is the UK charity dedicated to the prevention of suicide and the promotion of positive mental health and emotional wellbeing in young people.

Suicide is the biggest killer of people aged 35 and under in the UK. We believe that suicide is preventable.

PAPYRUS was founded in 1997 by a group of bereaved parents, who had each lost children to suicide. Our founding parents shared core beliefs that suicide is preventable, and that those of us with lived experience of suicide have a valuable and unique contribution to make to the wider conversation around suicide.

Since then, PAPYRUS has grown into a UK-wide charity with offices in north west England, south west England, West Midlands, London, Northern Ireland, north Wales, south Wales, and Scotland.

Today, we are a leading youth suicide prevention charity in the UK. Our suicide prevention helpline, HOPELINE247, is staffed by trained suicide prevention advisers, who work with young people – and anybody concerned for a young person – to help keep them safe from suicide. HOPELINE247 is a free and confidential call, text and email service, which is available 24 hours a day, every day of the year (weekends and bank holidays included),

We deliver our suicide prevention education and training packages to thousands of people each year, to create suicide-safer communities across the UK.

We also press for change to current legislation around suicide prevention on a regional and national level.

The work we do centres around three key principles; Support Equip and Influence.

See more here:

https://www.papyrus-uk.org/aboutus/

GUIDELINES FOR JOURNALISTS

Young suicide – the facts

• Suicide is the main cause of death in young people under the age of 35 in the UK.
• In 2018, 1,866 young people under the age of 35 took their own lives.
• Over three quarters of them were boys or young men.
• On average, over five young people take their lives each day.
• Over 200 schoolchildren are lost to suicide every year.
• Research shows that with appropriate early intervention and support suicide by young people can be prevented.

When reporting suicide please consider, not only the grief of family and friends of the deceased, but other vulnerable young people who may be feeling worthless and not coping with life at that time and for whom explicit descriptions of suicide method could offer a life escape route. It is well known that insensitive media reporting of suicide can prompt imitative behaviour. Evidence about the potential for imitative behaviour is strong.

When reporting suicide and self-harm please avoid –

• High profile (e.g. front page) positioning of suicide news.
• Bold and dramatic headlines such as ‘suicide contagion’, ‘suicide drama’, ‘suicide hot spot’.
• Detail of suicide method used, especially explicit descriptions e.g. names of pills or chemicals taken, types of ligature used.
• Naming and showing locations and means such as railway lines, bridges, tall buildings or cliffs.
• Naming social media, internet sites and chat rooms that promote suicide.
• Speculating about the reason or ‘trigger’ for the suicide; there is never only one reason why a young person ends their life. Contributing factors are complex and can include individual risk, current life events and surrounding social situations.
• Making the deceased appear heroic or brave or that the suicide was a solution to a problem.
• Romanticising suicides, linking suicide to a particular ‘cult’.
• Using large photographs of the deceased, especially of pretty young women, which can also romanticise suicide and encourage viral social media distribution.
• Endorsing myths around suicide.
• Excessive, dramatic, sensational headlines and reporting.

• Be sensitive to the grief and feelings of bereaved family and friends who are often vulnerable to taking their own lives.
• Include references to our helpline services and other support groups.

https://www.papyrus-uk.org/guidelines-for-journalists/