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Joint investigation by C4 Dispatches and The Times about allegations made by women who have worked with Russell Brand

67 replies

IwantToRetire · 17/09/2023 00:20

NB - I know trigger warnings have a bad name, but in this instance should add that some may find descriptions in the report of sexual violence personnally disturbing.

Alice has decided to speak out because she now believes that she was too young to be able to consent to a relationship with an adult man, and that the law should be changed to protect those under 18. “My mum still feels like she failed me in some way in allowing this to happen, but she had no recourse at all,” she says. “It shouldn’t be legal for a 16-year-old to have a relationship with a man in their thirties. There should be something in place to protect children.”

She also wants the entertainment industry to change. For many years, Brand has been applauded for his jokes describing how he has manipulated women for sex.

“I think he was very skilful in the start of making his identity be, ‘I’m the womaniser. I’m a sex addict. I’m inappropriate but it’s all just a joke, it’s funny’,” Alice claims, “It’s a smokescreen for a lot more of his dark behaviour.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russell-brand-rape-sexual-assault-abuse-allegations-investigation-v5hxdlmb6 (*)

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/russell-brand-in-plain-sight-dispatches

The tv channels and theatres still behave as those male entertainers are entitled to have every one of their whims catered to, including expecting womrn to be sexually available. For them, Me Too and all the other exposes have not stopped them acting like pimps.

(*) The Times article has been archived at https://archive.ph - just paste the Times web link into the box provided.

Russell Brand accused of rape, sexual assaults and abuse

Four women, including one who was just 16, make allegations after an investigation by The Sunday Times, The Times and Channel 4 Dispatches

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russell-brand-rape-sexual-assault-abuse-allegations-investigation-v5hxdlmb6

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Original poster
IwantToRetire · 18/09/2023 19:04

I have only just found out as RB isn't someone I have taken an interest in that he is now married and a third child is on the way.

In a sense it isn't my business but I feel like she has been tricked, or fallen for that reformed bad boy story.

And even if some man has truely reformed, I feel that because of pastdisrespect and worse to other women they shouldn't be allowed to then pretend they are an ordinary member of society.

Or like those second families, where some man wan>s on about how he never realised how wonderful it was to be part of raising children, in the meantime having no contact with the children of an earlier marriage who were not only ignored at the time but are now being further dismissed by having their father sentimentally drooling over the new children.

Its all part of that two face hyporcracy that allows, in fact permits, men to behave towards women as though they are just objects and acquisitions.

And each time the news leads on this story revelling in being the first to report some new consequence, all I think it is your two faced dishonesty and cover up that allowed him to continue in plain sight to be an apologetic vile male predator.

OP posts:
Ramblingnamechanger · 18/09/2023 15:12

Soy warrior crossposted re W at one.

Ramblingnamechanger · 18/09/2023 15:11

Agree with everything you sayIwanttoretire and Woman’s Hour this morning covered it well. World at one also, and included the NDA now being called confidentiality agreements. The other shocking insight was the film of audiences including women, laughing their heads off at the horrific misogyny of his vile jokes. I would really like some of these people to explain how they found it funny. And we see all too clearly how we live in the world we do, with enablers and cheerleaders making the unacceptable fashionable .

WarriorN · 18/09/2023 14:58

Yes absolutely nailed it @WinterTrees.

World at one had Zelda Perkins pointing out that the bbc had got rid of any NDAs and had a new transparency policy whereas C4 still had them.

She described a woman at the moment dealing with a situation who was in hospital following a suicide attempt following historic abuse accusations and an NDA and if she died the NDA passed to her family.

WarriorN · 18/09/2023 14:55

It's well worth listening to the actual interview (wow first day back from maternity leave!) and then world at 1.

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2023 14:53

Thanks for that. I’m so worried long term press attention might undermine any criminal case. Hopefully there’s enough evidence from the Dispatches investigation for them to charge him and they’ll be able to investigate any new allegations at their leisure.

I hope so too. One interesting element is that probably the best-evidenced allegation was made by a woman in the US, because she went to a rape crisis centre who kept her records. Police in the UK won't be ale to do anything about that, but maybe the US police will investigate now? Then again, a statute of limitations applies in some US states, so they might not.

NotBadConsidering · 18/09/2023 11:20

WinterTrees · 18/09/2023 10:07

It's the 'hiding in plain sight' thing that's making my head explode. Or, as a pp said, not even hiding.

Those clips that have been played, of him talking to Jimmy Savile and sexuallly harrassing the female news reader. People heard that and laughed along, or gasped at his boundary-pushing audacity (So modern! Mustn't be a prudish Mary Whitehouse moaner and object...) and LET HIM CONTINUE. Applauded and enabled him. Turned a wilful blind eye to the sinister undertones. Didn't stop to think WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? Or if they did, looked around and saw that other people thought it was funny and outrageous and radical, and said nothing.

And now there's a collective cry from the media and other celebrities of 'how did this happen? How was this shocking, aggressive, dangerous misogyny and humiliation of women allowed to go unchallenged?'

But it's still happening now. The penis-playing pianist. The Telegraph's column by a middle-aged mtf transitioner, lovingly describing the silky blouse and skirt he chose to wear for a funeral. Grace Lavery pontificating at great length (no pun intended) about 'her' penis. Willoughby on the (otherwise) all-women 'suffragette' edition of Celebrity Big Brother, parading around topless and aggressively asserting to the uncomfortable women that he was a 'real woman - LET THAT PENETRATE.' And more other examples than we could possibly list, but would all, when the balance tips in the collective consciousness, have people saying - HOW THE FUCK did we not see that for what it was?

I don't want to hijack or distract from the utterly sickening crimes committed here by this individual, and the trauma of the many women who were victims. But the post-revelation analysis, head-shaking and hand-wringing is doing my head in.

There's none so blind as those whose income and job security depend on them not seeing.

Nailed it. The people complaining that red flags were overlooked are the ones overlooking today’s red flags😡

Lottapianos · 18/09/2023 11:05

'He did literally bring his whole self to work'.

Oh god, you're so right. Yet another reason to find that phrase sickening

WarriorN · 18/09/2023 10:56

And horrific

WarriorN · 18/09/2023 10:55

Woman's hour has been fucking amazing today

Signalbox · 18/09/2023 10:55

But it's still happening now. The penis-playing pianist. The Telegraph's column by a middle-aged mtf transitioner, lovingly describing the silky blouse and skirt he chose to wear for a funeral. Grace Lavery pontificating at great length (no pun intended) about 'her' penis. Willoughby on the (otherwise) all-women 'suffragette' edition of Celebrity Big Brother, parading around topless and aggressively asserting to the uncomfortable women that he was a 'real woman - LET THAT PENETRATE.' And more other examples than we could possibly list, but would all, when the balance tips in the collective consciousness, have people saying - HOW THE FUCK did we not see that for what it was?

I guess there are performers who expose themselves and behave badly as part of an act who are not that person IRL. One would hope that the more risqué the performance on stage the more professional the person is IRL with both audiences and colleagues. Seems that at that time RB didn't really have an act at all and was just himself 100% of the time onstage or offstage.

He did literally bring his whole self to work.

WinterTrees · 18/09/2023 10:07

It's the 'hiding in plain sight' thing that's making my head explode. Or, as a pp said, not even hiding.

Those clips that have been played, of him talking to Jimmy Savile and sexuallly harrassing the female news reader. People heard that and laughed along, or gasped at his boundary-pushing audacity (So modern! Mustn't be a prudish Mary Whitehouse moaner and object...) and LET HIM CONTINUE. Applauded and enabled him. Turned a wilful blind eye to the sinister undertones. Didn't stop to think WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? Or if they did, looked around and saw that other people thought it was funny and outrageous and radical, and said nothing.

And now there's a collective cry from the media and other celebrities of 'how did this happen? How was this shocking, aggressive, dangerous misogyny and humiliation of women allowed to go unchallenged?'

But it's still happening now. The penis-playing pianist. The Telegraph's column by a middle-aged mtf transitioner, lovingly describing the silky blouse and skirt he chose to wear for a funeral. Grace Lavery pontificating at great length (no pun intended) about 'her' penis. Willoughby on the (otherwise) all-women 'suffragette' edition of Celebrity Big Brother, parading around topless and aggressively asserting to the uncomfortable women that he was a 'real woman - LET THAT PENETRATE.' And more other examples than we could possibly list, but would all, when the balance tips in the collective consciousness, have people saying - HOW THE FUCK did we not see that for what it was?

I don't want to hijack or distract from the utterly sickening crimes committed here by this individual, and the trauma of the many women who were victims. But the post-revelation analysis, head-shaking and hand-wringing is doing my head in.

There's none so blind as those whose income and job security depend on them not seeing.

Signalbox · 18/09/2023 09:56

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2023 09:44

The newspapers can continue to report on allegations while the police are investigating. It's only once an arrest has been made that contempt of court laws come into play.

From the CPS site:

'Strict liability publication contempt only applies to legal proceedings that are "active" at the time of the publication. "Active" is defined in Schedule 1 Contempt of Court Act 1981 and proceedings are active if a summons has been issued or a defendant arrested without warrant.'

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/contempt-court-reporting-restrictions-and-restrictions-public-access-hearings

Show quote history

Thanks for that. I’m so worried long term press attention might undermine any criminal case. Hopefully there’s enough evidence from the Dispatches investigation for them to charge him and they’ll be able to investigate any new allegations at their leisure.

BlessedKali · 18/09/2023 09:49

I'm torn on this - on the one hand I am wary of newspapers/media bringing someone down. I don't think it is necessarily fair to jump to the absolute conclusion that he is guilty before proper trial...

however we know we cannot in any way trust our legal system to take rape allegations seriously.

I suppose my conclusion is : we need a trustworthy legal system that victims of rape & SA can trust. It shouldn't be down to newspapers to be doing these kinds of investigations.

WarriorN · 18/09/2023 09:46

Didn't think anyone bothered with "chat" as it is the non feminist feminist thread.

@IwantToRetire no i didn't either and realised it's been neglected rather. Some of the discussion on that thread is extremely weak and non feminist.

That's the issue with splitting the bloody boards here.

But lots of mumsnetters didn't want to read the gender trans threads in the previous set up; they just wanted plain feminism and to hide these threads.

RoyalCorgi · 18/09/2023 09:44

Signalbox · 18/09/2023 09:36

It’s being reported that more women have come forward and the police will investigate. If that’s true presumably they will need place a reporting ban pdq or the media and online interest will be at risk of undermining any criminal case against him.

The newspapers can continue to report on allegations while the police are investigating. It's only once an arrest has been made that contempt of court laws come into play.

From the CPS site:

'Strict liability publication contempt only applies to legal proceedings that are "active" at the time of the publication. "Active" is defined in Schedule 1 Contempt of Court Act 1981 and proceedings are active if a summons has been issued or a defendant arrested without warrant.'

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/contempt-court-reporting-restrictions-and-restrictions-public-access-hearings

Contempt of Court, Reporting Restrictions and Restrictions on Public Access to Hearings | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/contempt-court-reporting-restrictions-and-restrictions-public-access-hearings

WarriorN · 18/09/2023 09:44

Bosky · 17/09/2023 04:04

Can't say I am surprised. I've always found him a repulsive creep.

This is shocking though - how did this not come out when Savile was being investigated??

"In May 2007, Brand called Jimmy Savile, who suggested the pair could meet if Brand brought along a sister. Brand doesn’t have a sister, so instead offered to bring a female employee — agreeing, on Savile’s request, that she should be naked.

“I’ve got a personal assistant,” he said. “And part of her job description is that anyone I demand she greet, meet, massages, she has to do it. She’s very attractive, Jimmy.” This was four years before Savile’s death and five years before details of the Jim’ll Fix It presenter’s crimes were exposed."

I actually remember that interview being used to prove how creepy Saville was; no one seemed to think RB was also being creepy then.

easytoassemble · 18/09/2023 09:43

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster. Sock puppeting.

Signalbox · 18/09/2023 09:36

It’s being reported that more women have come forward and the police will investigate. If that’s true presumably they will need place a reporting ban pdq or the media and online interest will be at risk of undermining any criminal case against him.

RethinkingLife · 18/09/2023 09:04

It's all very distasteful. I'm saddened by the # of times I've seen people assign blame to Katie Perry, Katherine Ryan, the girls/women themselves, anyone but RB.

Doingmybest12 · 18/09/2023 08:17

What I don't understand about this is that there must be thousands of wannabe actors/presenters out there. RB is pretty famous, I wouldn't say wildly so or national treasure status. What is it these creeps do or know that means that are tolerated in a work place. We never know because they aren't saying and the TV companies aren't saying, they are happy with the focus being on the individual.

TommyNever · 18/09/2023 08:09

He's filthy scum but well-supported by conspiracy nuts, which seems to have been his deliberate strategy in recent years - outperform Jimmy Savile by recruiting an army of psychos to help bash the victims.

His latest tactic is to court Putin and hope that glorying in the slaughter of Ukrainian children serves him as well as it does the US far right.

Loubelle70 · 18/09/2023 07:00

IwantToRetire · 17/09/2023 19:17

The allegations are so disturbing and distressing, those poor women. This morning I’m mad as hell, what can be done to stop this behaviour, people knew and did fuck all. We’ve had enough!!

Well I am afraid that as long as men's needs and behaviour are prioritised nothing is going to happen. And more often than not when something like this is made public,all those positions of power express shock and vow it will never happen again. But the reality is they envy men like this and secretly with they could get away with it.

And I am afraid this isn't just about institutions but that fact that the men who grow up to be abusers are the product of families as much as anything else.

We now have a situation of open hypocrasy where society wrings it hands about violence against women, yet at the same time promotes men who are overtly misogynistic and thing being a sexual predatory is what all men want to be. (check out "banter").

Not forgetting that society still makes out that some women who fall for this "bad boy" persona will have their reputations enhanced to be seen with a man like that.

And it also indicates that however much feminists have campaigned on issues about violence against women and exploitation eg prostitution and pornography, for many women this has no traction.

Why would any woman want to have anything to do with man who boasted about being raised on his father's pornography?

This isn't to blame women, as obviously men are the problem.

But just that so much of culture is still about men being allowed to cross the line, and are enabled by other men.

YES YES YES! THIS^

msdiscerning · 18/09/2023 04:42

Yes complete agree!