Page 6 | Mumsnet campaign on VAWG includes men in their definition of women

Luno · 2023-09-14T09:51:22+00:00

I'm not sure if/how I can link to it but under Mumsnet campaigns Women in data have published a survey about violence against women and girls. It talks about "ALL women", asks for sex assigned at birth and says you can answer on the basis of your "gender identity". How can any organisation purported to be for the benefit of women include men in their definition of women? All of the data will be inaccurate, unscientific and u representative.

TheHappyCarrot · 14/09/2023 16:17

Deary me MNHQ, what are you thinking?

LuluBlakey1 · 14/09/2023 16:17

Is anyone really surprised at MNET HQ ? I'm not.

AlisonDonut · 14/09/2023 16:17

They also include a fair number with just the word 'assigned' in them...for example 'assigned participants'. Or 'Assigned study drug'.

Do better.

Efacsen · 14/09/2023 16:16

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:13

They aren’t going to do scientific studies about assignment of sex for the average person with no DSD. This doesn’t mean that everyone wasn’t having their sex assigned. They were. It’s been widely used and normal for at least 80yrs.

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You're clearly talking nonsense. And even when presented with the evidence for this - you can't admit that you are wrong

Perhaps you're embaressed - you ought to be

Pudmyboy · 14/09/2023 16:16

Boiledbeetle · 14/09/2023 14:16

That survey truly is a masterclass in Garbage In Garbage Out!

And neither mnhq or the survey owners have been on the thread to address the comments from the angry women yet!

Not on this thread or the survey thread: the survey is getting a pasting on there too!

AlisonDonut · 14/09/2023 16:15

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:05

I did it for fun anyway. And 15,185 results dating from 1932 used the phrase “assignment of sex”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=assignment+of+sex

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And if you scroll down the list they are mostly about DSDs.

And mostly very recent.

Mumsnet campaign on VAWG includes men in their definition of women

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:15

Theeyeballsinthesky · 14/09/2023 16:08

Yes those are all (utterly unsurprisingly) about Disorders of Sexual Development

I don’t believe for one second you looked at all 15,185 studies in the few minutes to even be able to seriously claim they were all about DSDs.

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:13

Theeyeballsinthesky · 14/09/2023 16:08

Yes those are all (utterly unsurprisingly) about Disorders of Sexual Development

They aren’t going to do scientific studies about assignment of sex for the average person with no DSD. This doesn’t mean that everyone wasn’t having their sex assigned. They were. It’s been widely used and normal for at least 80yrs.

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:11

Luno · 14/09/2023 15:55

So disingenuous to say that sex assigned at birth doesn't signal adherence to gender ideology. It's like saying "all lives matter" is just words used since the dawn of time and have nothing to do with race.

It’s just odd to suggest that “assigned sex at birth” signals belief in some ideology when the phrase itself long predates this ideology by over a half a century.

greenspaces4peace · 14/09/2023 16:11

Yes @MN explain. Of is there $$ involved and you can’t explain/or won’t? Shame shame shame.

AlisonDonut · 14/09/2023 16:10

I don't hand my data or experiences to people who don't understand that sex is fixed at conception.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 14/09/2023 16:08

Yes those are all (utterly unsurprisingly) about Disorders of Sexual Development

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:07

DiabolicalFinial · 14/09/2023 15:58

Medical texts, up until relatively recently, have never discussed “assigned sex at birth” EXCEPT in the context of DSDs.

Anyone who uses and accepts “sex assigned at birth” (when not used in cases of DSDs) is demonstrating their belief in gender ideology, their lack of scientific/medical knowledge, their tenuous grip on reality, their pandering to the delusions of unwell people and their acceptance of drugging, sterilising and surgically modifying children.

They used the phrase for all births. It is only regarding DSDs where the sex assigned was indeterminate that they discussed reassignment of sex and whether it should be M or F.

This bit is just rude and uncalled for
”Anyone who uses and accepts “sex assigned at birth” (when not used in cases of DSDs) is demonstrating their belief in gender ideology, their lack of scientific/medical knowledge, their tenuous grip on reality, their pandering to the delusions of unwell people and their acceptance of drugging, sterilising and surgically modifying children.”

Farmageddon · 14/09/2023 16:06

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:05

I did it for fun anyway. And 15,185 results dating from 1932 used the phrase “assignment of sex”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=assignment+of+sex

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Up to what year? 2023?

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:05

SirChenjins · 14/09/2023 15:49

Here's a quick exercise for you to test your assertion. Go to Medline (or PubMed, your choice), search "assigned female at birth", limit to 1950-2000. Compare the same phrase to 2000-2023. Let us know how you get on.

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I did it for fun anyway. And 15,185 results dating from 1932 used the phrase “assignment of sex”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=assignment+of+sex

assignment of sex - Search Results - PubMed

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=assignment+of+sex

SlippinJanie · 14/09/2023 16:00

I started to complete it but gave up when it asked what I identify as. I don't identify as anything. I am a woman.

VoldemortsSockCollection · 14/09/2023 15:58

Jesus wept.

DiabolicalFinial · 14/09/2023 15:58

Medical texts, up until relatively recently, have never discussed “assigned sex at birth” EXCEPT in the context of DSDs.

Anyone who uses and accepts “sex assigned at birth” (when not used in cases of DSDs) is demonstrating their belief in gender ideology, their lack of scientific/medical knowledge, their tenuous grip on reality, their pandering to the delusions of unwell people and their acceptance of drugging, sterilising and surgically modifying children.

SirChenjins · 14/09/2023 15:56

Literally everywhere? Nope, it's not.

Can you link to the evidence that shows the widespread acceptance or not? And let me know how many results you get for "assigned female at birth" you get on the NICE (which incidentally isn't UK-wide, hth) search function, would you?

Original poster

Luno · 14/09/2023 15:55

So disingenuous to say that sex assigned at birth doesn't signal adherence to gender ideology. It's like saying "all lives matter" is just words used since the dawn of time and have nothing to do with race.

OP posts:

Chersfrozenface · 14/09/2023 15:55

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 15:46

I take it you’ve never looked at old birth certificates or read any old medical texts then. The process has been referred to as sex assigned at birth since at least the 1930s.

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I've just looked up mine. I was definitely born after 1930 and the column is headed "Sex".

Farmageddon · 14/09/2023 15:55

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 15:52

It is literally everywhere. I don’t see a need to post links to the NHS, Wiki, NICE, for the U.K. and other similar sources for other countries.

If it is as you say, some new proposed way of referring to the process where a midwife checks a baby and records their sex- where is your evidence that this process has been called something completely different for decades? Where is your evidence that is new and hardly anyone has used it?

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'It is literally everywhere' - You really don't think words have any meaning at all do you? just whatever you want them to mean in the moment.

And nice way to deflect and not actually produce the evidence asked for.

Farmageddon · 14/09/2023 15:53

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 15:49

I rather think it’s a case that you were not aware of it until 5 minutes ago and have bought into the narrative that “sex assigned at birth” was invented by transgender people. It wasn’t. Yes, they’ve mis-used to argue (unsuccessfully) that this phrase means sex is a social construct. But that’s it. The phrase itself long predates this. My insistence it is just semantics is based in history and reality. It’s got nothing to do with ideology.

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Well it doesn't feel like semantics to the rest of us, and surely a survey should be as clear as possible to appeal to the respondents. If the vast majority of potential respondents disagree with the meaning of terms in the survey, you've got a problem.

Assigned at birth is nonsense, sex is observed long before the birth in many cases.

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 15:53

SirChenjins · 14/09/2023 15:49

Here's a quick exercise for you to test your assertion. Go to Medline (or PubMed, your choice), search "assigned female at birth", limit to 1950-2000. Compare the same phrase to 2000-2023. Let us know how you get on.

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Those are studies, not medical texts describing procedures.

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 15:52

SirChenjins · 14/09/2023 15:30

Really? Can you link to the evidence that shows this widespread acceptance?

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It is literally everywhere. I don’t see a need to post links to the NHS, Wiki, NICE, for the U.K. and other similar sources for other countries.

If it is as you say, some new proposed way of referring to the process where a midwife checks a baby and records their sex- where is your evidence that this process has been called something completely different for decades? Where is your evidence that is new and hardly anyone has used it?