Page 3 | Mumsnet campaign on VAWG includes men in their definition of women

Luno · 2023-09-14T09:51:22+00:00

I'm not sure if/how I can link to it but under Mumsnet campaigns Women in data have published a survey about violence against women and girls. It talks about "ALL women", asks for sex assigned at birth and says you can answer on the basis of your "gender identity". How can any organisation purported to be for the benefit of women include men in their definition of women? All of the data will be inaccurate, unscientific and u representative.

Wiccan · 14/09/2023 17:23

RavingStone · 14/09/2023 17:11

Really upset about this @mnhq

Women bare their souls here about abuse from males. But presumably they could have saved themselves these traumatic experiences by simply identifying as men, as you seem to think gender identity is more important than material reality.

I'm sure your stance appeases activists but you're forgetting something. Those activists are primarily concerned with silencing feminists. Actual transphobia exists but it ain't coming from feminists. It's far more akin to homophobia.

I couldn't agree more . Since all this gender woo started I just constantly feel re-abused.

AliOlis · 14/09/2023 17:18

Boiledbeetle · 14/09/2023 17:16

An I the only one that suspects no one from mnhq actually checked the survey before linking to it!

Well equal shame on them if they did.

Boiledbeetle · 14/09/2023 17:16

An I the only one that suspects no one from mnhq actually checked the survey before linking to it!

RavingStone · 14/09/2023 17:11

Really upset about this @mnhq

Women bare their souls here about abuse from males. But presumably they could have saved themselves these traumatic experiences by simply identifying as men, as you seem to think gender identity is more important than material reality.

I'm sure your stance appeases activists but you're forgetting something. Those activists are primarily concerned with silencing feminists. Actual transphobia exists but it ain't coming from feminists. It's far more akin to homophobia.

HagoftheNorth · 14/09/2023 17:11

Ah, thank you Alison

Boiledbeetle · 14/09/2023 17:10

rhywlodes · 14/09/2023 16:39

Don't worry, it's obvious to anybody lurking (it's what I usually do, and I've learnt such a lot!) that GuanYinShanxi is ill-informed and bluffing.

You do realise now you're here you can't leave again don't you!!!!

Come on in the terven is warm!

AlisonDonut · 14/09/2023 17:04

HagoftheNorth · 14/09/2023 17:02

7 pages and still no response from MNHQ, does anyone know if it is possible to @ them?

They have pulled the survey.

DiabolicalFinial · 14/09/2023 17:03

The gender-fluid goddess has no need for ‘logic’, ideology is a powerful motivator (as we have seen)…

Original poster

Luno · 14/09/2023 17:02

It wasn't a guess. You spelt out your "logic". I demonstrated its illogicality.

If you still think your pubmed search proves your assertion I think you'll just continue to argue that white is black in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

OP posts:

HagoftheNorth · 14/09/2023 17:02

7 pages and still no response from MNHQ, does anyone know if it is possible to @ them?

Farmageddon · 14/09/2023 17:02

"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."

AliOlis · 14/09/2023 17:02

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 17:00

Your guess at “my logic” is a logic fail as is your assertion that 15,185 studies using assignment of sex dating from 1932 didn’t prove my point.

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Why not link to one of them, instead of one relating to a case of Intersex?

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 17:00

Luno · 14/09/2023 16:58

By your logic "gay" means happy and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality 🙄

Not that I'm conceding that "assigned sex at birth" has been in regular use for over half a century. The statistics shown upthread have clearly disproved your assertion. You're just digging yourself a hole now.

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Your guess at “my logic” is a logic fail as is your assertion that 15,185 studies using assignment of sex dating from 1932 didn’t prove my point.

AliOlis · 14/09/2023 17:00

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:58

So what? The process was used on all babies, there is no reason to do a scientific study on the sex assignment of a perfectly normal male or female with no DSD. That’s why studies on “Assigning sex to perfectly normal baby girl who is an adult woman” do not exist. Because there is no medical reason to study it. This is not because the procedure was only to assign sex for only those with DSDs. That is simply ahistorical and illogical.

You won’t find it in studies as I stated upthread. You have to look in medical texts- procedure manuals, and history of medicine texts.

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Oh, just stop it 🤣🤣🤣

DiabolicalFinial · 14/09/2023 16:59

And you won’t find it there - none of us did when we studied with them!

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:58

AliOlis · 14/09/2023 16:54

That apparently refers to someone with an intersex condition 🤦‍♀️
Are you playing games or do you genuinely not understand what the difference is?

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So what? The process was used on all babies, there is no reason to do a scientific study on the sex assignment of a perfectly normal male or female with no DSD. That’s why studies on “Assigning sex to perfectly normal baby girl who is an adult woman” do not exist. Because there is no medical reason to study it. This is not because the procedure was only to assign sex for only those with DSDs. That is simply ahistorical and illogical.

You won’t find it in studies as I stated upthread. You have to look in medical texts- procedure manuals, and history of medicine texts.

Original poster

Luno · 14/09/2023 16:58

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:11

It’s just odd to suggest that “assigned sex at birth” signals belief in some ideology when the phrase itself long predates this ideology by over a half a century.

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By your logic "gay" means happy and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality 🙄

Not that I'm conceding that "assigned sex at birth" has been in regular use for over half a century. The statistics shown upthread have clearly disproved your assertion. You're just digging yourself a hole now.

OP posts:

Brefugee · 14/09/2023 16:57

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:40

Great the MRAs will be celebrating tonight. How to get women to silence themselves about VAWG- make them very afraid that a 1% demographic might “skew” the results of a survey.

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Meh.
I would rather accurate language is used and if it really must be included the gender identity can be a non-mandatory answer.

Jackydaytona · 14/09/2023 16:54

Posters may be interested in glinners new book "tough
Crowd" available for pre order

AliOlis · 14/09/2023 16:54

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:50

1947 Sep;2(9):328-30.
[On the behavior of the doctor in a case of pseudo-hermaphroditism in an adult subject with erroneous sex assignment]

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That apparently refers to someone with an intersex condition 🤦‍♀️
Are you playing games or do you genuinely not understand what the difference is?

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:53

AlisonDonut · 14/09/2023 16:51

Babies don't fill out their own birth certificate.

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?

Plasmodesmata · 14/09/2023 16:52

He was a very perceptive man, Sir Thomas More.

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:52

Farmageddon · 14/09/2023 16:48

No dear, the criticism was the term 'sex assigned at birth' which is what you used until it wasn't convenient for your argument.
You've now amended it to 'sex assigned' which is meaningless. But I think you know that and are just arguing for the sake of it.

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No, it was because you can’t search PubMed with “sex assigned at birth” as a phrase. So I shortened it.

The disagreement was always stated as “sex is not assigned” or “sex cannot be assigned”

AlisonDonut · 14/09/2023 16:51

GuanYinShanxi · 14/09/2023 16:46

Because you’re not reading the instructions for filling out a birth certificate. That’s why.

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Babies don't fill out their own birth certificate.

Efacsen · 14/09/2023 16:50

Do they have special assigneurs/assigneuses in delivery rooms these days to perform the assigning? Or can parents do it? - useful if it's a homebirth

Doubt that